Our guest is Zach Moss, head coach of the Northwestern fencing program since 2016.
In this episode of First to 15, we're joined by Zach Moss, who has been the head coach of the Northwestern fencing program since 2016. Under his leadership, the Wildcats have achieved national recognition and consistent success, including a program-best third place finish at the NCAA Championships in 2021.
In this conversation, we dive into the world of collegiate fencing and learn more about Coach Moss's journey and his insights on coaching and the sport of fencing.
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First to 15: The Official Podcast of USA Fencing
Host: Bryan Wendell
Cover art: Manna Creations
Theme music: Brian Sanyshyn
EPISODE 25
[INTRO]
[00:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell, and in this show, you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting, and insanely talented people in the sport we all love. First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. So whether you're an Olympian or a Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you. With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:40] BW: Today, we're joined by Zach Moss, who has been the Head Coach of the Northwestern Fencing Program since 2016. Under Zach's leadership, the Wildcats have achieved a national recognition and consistent success, including a program-best third-place finish at the NCAA championships in 2021. Today, we're going to talk about collegiate fencing with Zach, and learn more about his own journey, and also get some of his insights on coaching and just sport of fencing in general. So welcome to the podcast, Zach.
[00:01:06] ZM: Hi, Bryan. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk college fencing.
[00:01:09] BW: Yes, this is great. Just for full transparency, we're recording on March 20th. This is actually going to be released on the 27th. So we're talking before NCAA. By the time people are hearing this, that tournament will have already completed. So they can head online and find the results there. But just talking generally about that event, what do you love about the NCAA championships? What's it like to be in that room as somebody who myself has never been?
[00:01:33] ZM: I think the energy is unreal. It's unlike really any other competition in the world. There are people who have fenced in the Olympics who will tell you NCAA championships is the hardest event they've ever fenced in, just the caliber of competition, the caliber of the fencing. The format is just a grind. You just have this – every touch, every bout is so important energy from the beginning, throughout the four days. You have people fighting for a team result. You have people fighting for an individual result. You have people fighting for both. It's just a tournament unlike any other.
[00:02:05] BW: The structure is really interesting too because 24 per weapon, and everybody fences everybody. Like you said, every touch being important, you can't take a bout or two off because then you're never going to stand a chance of being in that final four who actually has a shot at the trophy. Am I understanding that right?
[00:02:23] ZM: Yes. That round-robin format, every touch matters. Everyone is good. So anyone can be anyone. It's exceptionally rare for someone to even go undefeated in the pool play competition. So it literally can come down to indicators as to who's top 12, who's top eight. Those are all American markings and then that kind of illustrious top four.
The thing that I think makes it maybe the most difficult is that nature of just turning around and going into another super intense five-touch bout, where maybe you just lost a bout that you feel like you could have won. You didn't agree with the referee call or you missed that last action. It was your action. How does that impact you going into the next bout? Like are you still thinking about that one, and now you're fencing a different person, and you lose that bout because you're focused on the last bout? Then you can spiral. Or are you able to reset and just go into that next bout, short memory focused on that opponent in front of you?
[00:03:16] BW: Yes. So it's not just about the physical endurance, it sounds like, that it takes to get through all of those bouts over a couple of days. Let's actually shift a little bit now, and back up a little bit, and talk about your own fencing journey and your experiences as an NCAA fencer at Duke. How that might have influenced your coaching philosophy and your approach to coaching now at Northwestern.
[00:03:39] ZM: Yes. I mean, I definitely would say my time as a collegiate student athlete is a huge reason that I'm now a collegiate coach. I absolutely love that experience. I loved the camaraderie, the close relationships you develop with your teammates. I always say this to my own team. I remember almost none of the fencing that I did in college. I remember some of it, the good, the highs, and the lows.
I remember everything else so much more intensely. That experience and opportunity for growth and development through the sport and through the relationships you can build in the sport is very much how I became a coach, why I became a coach, and the way I choose to approach that process. I'm trying to cultivate that experience and opportunity for growth for my own athletes today.
[00:04:22] BW: At some point, you made that jump from being a competitive fencer to becoming a coach. What motivated you to do that? What were you kind of thinking at the time that made you say, “This is where I'm going to take my career next.”?
[00:04:37] ZM: It's a really great question. I still don't know that I have the right answer to this in terms of how I got to where I am. I was training pretty seriously in Minnesota with one of the former national team coaches, and the opportunity came to start doing some coaching at a local high school. Then that slowly evolved into more and more coaching responsibilities and opportunity, and at the same time where or my competitive career was going well, but not necessarily as well as I would like. I was feeling that maybe it was time to transition away.
Then an opportunity presented itself at Northwestern, and I jumped on it to see what would happen. Here I am nine years later. I’ve been the head coach here for seven years, still constantly learning how to be a coach and how to be the best version of myself, which I think is one of the really fun things about coaching is it's never the same. You're always learning and growing and changing.
[00:05:32] BW: Yes. Collegiate coaching, especially, because there's new people coming in all the time and going out the door as well after they graduate. So it seems like the challenges just present new opportunities every single year.
[00:05:45] ZM: Yes, 100%. I think that's one of the things that makes college coaching very different from coaching in a club, where you're developing students, mostly from not fencing to whatever level you can develop them to as a fencer. Whereas we're getting these fencers who are coming in with maybe a style that is different than what I was taught, or how I coach, or a very different training environment, or a very different cultural experience within that training environment. How do you connect with that athlete, get them bought in to the team environment, but also into how you can help them? I think that's a very collaborative process. It sort of has to be because you're also dealing with 18-year-olds who are mostly being independent for the first time in their lives and over their four years here growing into adults, which to me means taking ownership over all of your spaces, including your fencing. Which some athletes have had that opportunity, where they really got to make their fencing their own before they got here.
Some are in an environment where they've always been told exactly what to do on the strip, exactly how to train. Now, they're in an environment where maybe that's not the case. How do we help them take that ownership?
[00:06:53] BW: That's a great point because they might have had some independence in high school in the later years. But in a lot of cases, maybe it was still a parent dropping them off at practice and picking them up. Now, they're responsible for getting to practice or not, right? If they don't show up, that's on them. So that independence just adds a whole another layer.
Oh, and by the way, they're also students throughout all this at a – in the case of Northwestern and a lot of our fencing schools, at a really difficult academic program. So they have to find a way to navigate that as well.
So when you first arrived at Northwestern, do you remember what that first season was like and what some of the challenges you might have faced where and how you overcame them?
[00:07:34] ZM: Yes. I mean, so my first two years here, I was an assistant coach, which I think was really helpful for me to get a feel of Northwestern and being in a college coach role. I was fortunate enough to be here with the great Laurie Schiller who was here for 40 years as the head coach. So I got to learn a lot and see how he did things, what I would like to do, what I would take from that, how I would probably be a little bit different. So those first two years, I just had the benefit of learning and building relationships with athletes.
My first year as head coach, first year as head coach of any program of any sport is difficult. I think and every coach who has ever experienced that will tell you that because you're stepping into a program or even here, where I had these relationships with these athletes, and I had an understanding of what it was like. I didn't really know what the job was. I didn't really know the level of demand that would be expected sort of administratively as a head coach.
But then also, the fact that Laurie did things one way. I'm not Laurie. I'm going to do them a little bit differently. You've recruited this whole team of athletes Laurie had to be at Northwestern for the program that he had for his leadership style. I'm not the same. We're just not the same people. No two people are going to lead exactly the same way. So I think that just naturally creates challenges when you have leadership change of understanding each other, figuring out this is how I'm going to respond to things, this is how I'm going to do things. I know it's not what you signed up for, and I'm sorry about that. It’s just the reality. We're both in a situation where it's not quite what you wanted. This isn't quite where I want the program to be. I wanted to kind of move in this other direction.
That's always a really challenging environment because it's just about change and change management. So we spent a lot of time that first season building a lot of communication, a lot of understanding, a lot of explanation of this is where we are, this is where we're heading, this is the path to get there, and this is the thought process behind it. Some athletes are going to be like, “Yes, that sounds great. I'm really on board.”
Some athletes are going to be like, “That's not what I'm interested in. That's not what I want.” But I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate the understanding of the process. How can we work together to kind of meet in the middle here? So that whole experience of sort of being thrown into the fire of change management in a team environment was really impactful for me in helping me understand how to be a better coach and how to manage people. But certainly a challenge.
[00:10:04] BW: I mean, you talked about recruiting each year. More and more of the fencers at Northwestern are your recruits, right? Until after four years. They're all people that you actively recruited. So are there specific qualities you're looking for for someone you're going to recruit into the Northwestern program to be a student athlete at Northwestern?
[00:10:24] ZM: Yes. I mean, I think we're really – when we talk about recruiting for Northwestern, we're looking at three categories, right? Academic fit. This is an incredibly high-level, rigorous academic institution. If you don't have the ability to be successful academically, it doesn't matter how good you are as a fencer here, right? So we got to find that good people for the academic fit and the cultural fit of Northwestern. Every university has a different culture, a different emphasis in trying to find people who fit in with that, who are great at time management, great at communication, understand how to prioritize, know what they're looking for academically. Which, honestly, when you're talking to 16 and 17-year-olds, most of the time, they don't. They have ideas, but they're still figuring that out. I don't think I knew what I wanted to do until I was like 25. Most of my pre-college peers were similar. They changed careers after college. So that's one piece.
Then the other two pieces are fencing fit, which, really simply, what can this person contribute on the strip, both in competition and in practice, right? Maybe their results haven't been the strongest, but I think that they can be an unbelievable training partner in practice, and we can help them develop stronger competitive results. Or maybe the opposite, right? Maybe they've had tremendous competitive results. But we also need them to be able to contribute in a training environment in a productive way. So we want – how does that person fit in both of those realms?
Then the third thing, which is, honestly, the most important thing to me is cultural fit on our team. We have a very strong team culture that's team-focused, is about team success above individual success, although that individual success is really important. How does someone fit into that? How do they make us stronger as a unit, as a group? I believe that, in general, people are stronger together than they are apart. How do we – anyone we're bringing in, we want to make sure they're bought into that and that they can contribute something off the strip to our team.
[00:12:15] BW: How do you assess that in advance when you're not able to coach these individuals, and you're looking at the resume? But it doesn't tell the whole story, right? The points rankings, that doesn't tell the whole story.
[00:12:27] ZM: Yes. No, definitely. I would say we're really qualitative in that process. I would also say that it is way more art than science. People ask me that all the time. How do you make those assessments? It's hard to kind of put it in sound bite form because it's a lot of little things. It’s okay, especially we're talking about the fencing and cultural fit. Academic fit’s relatively easy. What are your grades? What are the classes you're taking? What are your test scores, pretty straightforward? How do you communicate across email? How do you communicate in person? Those things are pretty indicative of somebody's ability to manage themselves and their time academically.
But that fit with the team from a fencing perspective, it's a lot of watching. It's a lot of watching video from a fencing perspective. Obviously, looking at results is impactful. But watching how people fence. How are they approaching their bouts? What do they do when they lose? What happens when they get hit in a bout? Do they shut down? Do they freak out? Do they start yelling at the referee? Or are they able to reset, refocus, and use that information that they got from getting hit to turn it around and score the next touch or the next three touches?
Then the cultural fit, we're assessing in a lot of different ways. We do a lot of meetings. We usually start with a Zoom call and getting to know a little bit more about the person. Then anybody that we're really going to invite into our team, we require them to come visit. They need to come spend a day on our campus, see everything, spend time with our athletes. They're the people they're going to be spending the majority of the time with. So we need to make sure there's a fit there.
Also to get a really sense of like what it's like to be a student athlete at Northwestern because it's unbelievable. I mean, I graduated college 15 years ago. The way college athletics support of athletes has changed in that 15 years, it’s not even the same experience anymore, I think, in some ways, which is amazing. The resources they have at their disposal are unreal. But also, there's a significant level of expectation for how our athletes comport themselves, what they're doing on a daily basis, their commitment, and all those aspects of their experience. So I think it's really important to see that for yourself.
In my experience going through this process as an athlete 20-ish years ago, I had a dream school in my head the whole way, right? Like from the time I was 12, it was like, “I want to go to that school.” I'd never been there. I'd never seen it. I just like knew the name. It had a big name.
[00:14:48] BW: It was an idea, basically.
[00:14:50] ZM: There's an idea of it, right? I went to visit my junior year, and I stepped on the campus. To this day, I couldn't tell you why. But it wasn't right. I just like – it felt wrong. It wasn't the right fit. Everything about it was wrong. It’s a beautiful campus. I've gone back, and I've been like, “I don't understand why I felt that way.” I still don't understand why. But I still feel like it wouldn't feel right, which is the opposite experience I had when I, ultimately, visited Duke. I was like, “This is what I have in my head. This feels right. This is the environment I'm looking for.” I don't think anybody can get that experience if they don't go and visit.
So I think the visit is really critical from both sides, right? For the athlete, the recruit to understand what it is they might be signing up for and for the team and our staff to get a feel for who really is this person and how do they fit with us.
[00:15:38] BW: One thing that's always interested me about collegiate fencing specifically is that it really does embody the idea that fencing is an individual sport and a team sport because at the collegiate level, you're getting results in both of those categories. So as a coach, I imagine that's extra challenging because you only have 24 hours in a day. You have to develop these individuals to become the best fencers they can be when they're alone on the strip. But you also have to build the team and build the Northwestern identity out there and get team results. How do you keep all that in balance?
[00:16:14] ZM: It is not always easy. I will tell you that. I think we're really fortunate at Northwestern with the resources and support that we have available, that we're able to put the energy in both of those areas. So on a team level, we're really emphasizing team results all the time. We're talking about it in terms of team results. We are, obviously, tracking on individual results. We want our individuals to be successful. But we focus on the team, and we spend a lot of time at it.
Early in the season, we do all sorts of meetings and talks about team values and goals and how we work together as a group and difference in communication style and how we can support each other and challenge each other. It's always a work in progress. There's always room for more growth. But we put so much energy there.
Then from a training perspective, we are training as a team. Everyone is together. We do as much as we can across all three weapons so that they're very cohesive and thinking about each other as one big unit, instead of just, “I'm in my little foil bubble and really just focused on my own fencing. How do I fit into the bigger picture?”
Then we supplement all that with a lot of individual attention through lessons. We film every bout that we fence. We have like a video database so that our team can kind of look at that on their own, but also meet with a coach to talk through it, and set intention and goals for their own fencing. So we have team goals, we have weapons squad goals, and then we have individual goals. We are trying to support all of those at the same time, knowing that being part of a team comes with some sacrifice. That's certainly an aspect that we emphasize and talk through as a team.
But we also – I would say the thing that really – I don't know. I feel like we're a little bit unique in this regard. We have a big team. We have 10 women per weapon, which is pretty sizable. We're one of the biggest teams in the NCAA, which allows us to have a fantastic training environment. These 10 high-level women defense within your weapon every day to help push you and make you better.
But we also have a really large competitive schedule. I personally feel that it's really difficult to reach your potential as an athlete if you're not getting opportunities to compete. So we emphasize within the structure of our season, everybody getting opportunities to compete and significant. We're still trying to win everything we can, and the fencers who show that they're the strongest are getting the most opportunity.
But everybody gets opportunity and the opportunity to earn more, which helps them get bought in on the team dynamic because they're contributing, if not every weekend, every other weekend, and getting the opportunity to challenge themselves, push themselves, test themselves. Even if it's against an opponent that they've always been successful with, can I win this bout differently? Can I win it more efficiently? Can I apply this new tool in that stressful competitive environment?
Where now, as opposed to, “Oh, I'm fencing someone who I feel like might be above my level, and that's challenging and creates its own challenges. But I know that. I feel a little bit freer going in.” Versus, “This is a bout I'm supposed to win, and losing this would be a problem,” is a different level of psychological challenge but just as important if you want to be those very best fencers in the world.
[00:19:21] BW: So you talked about the schedule. I imagine we could do a whole episode on this. But how is like the Northwestern fencing schedule created? This shows my lack of knowledge about collegiate fencing. But how are you deciding where your team goes and when, other than the obvious things like regionals and NCAAs?
[00:19:39] ZM: It’s a lot of this is the way it's always been. There’s established invitationals. Almost everything in collegiate fencing is an invitational-based system, where we hosted a really big event in February. So I can talk about that one, where there's been a certain number of schools. It's usually 15 to 18 who have always come. So we reach out and say, “Hey, do all of you want to come back?” Some of them might say yes. Some of them might say no. If we get nos, we're looking for other places, other schools to fill those spaces.
Then every program is kind of doing that. So every once in a while, we get new meets that pop up or opportunities where coaches are like, “Hey, I'm going to try to host this thing. Will your teams come?” They'll reach out, and so different programs. We travel a lot. We travel 10, 12 weekends in a year probably for college meats. Some programs are doing four or five. We have a little bit of the difficulty of being in the Midwest, which we have some schools near us, which is great. We fence them all the time. But we have to travel pretty far abroad to get everybody or get people to come to us. So it's a lot of just relationships between coaches and finding out where the meets are being held, what meats are available.
[00:20:46] BW: Well, the travel has another effect of, I would imagine, being another team-building experience, right? When everybody's traveling on the road together, fencing together, living together, in essence, when you're on the road. I can imagine that's another chance to make the team stronger. Do you notice that as the coach as well?
[00:21:04] ZM: Oh, absolutely. It's always really interesting the beginning of the season. We almost have two or three weeks before classes start, where we get to like a team training camp. We're bringing in all these new fencers to the program. Next year, roughly a third to a quarter of our team is new people. So those relationships are developing, some pre-existing, some not. You kind of get to a place where it's like, “Okay, this group has kind of formed but hasn't really been tested.” They're coming to practice together. They're eating some meals together. They're hanging out together.
But those relationships are still very new and still building and nothing puts stress on relationships like travel and then come competition with travel. So you kind of go through it together in those spaces; good, bad, highs, lows. That's where you really start to get into deeper relationships, deeper connections, and maybe deeper conflicts. Then we have to work through. But those conflicts and working through those help strengthen relationships and get us to a better place.
[00:22:09] BW: Yes. When you look at the classic stages of team building, storming is one of them. When the team does go through that storm, they often come out stronger on the other side, if they have a coach who can help them navigate it, right?
[00:22:21] ZM: Right, right.
[00:22:20] BW: So that's on you. So what are some other ways that – other than your location in the Midwest, what are some other things that in your mind kind of sets Northwestern apart from other collegiate fencing programs?
[00:22:34] ZM: I think the biggest and most important is that we are a single-gender program. Being just a women's team really informs a lot of how our program operates and who our program is. One of the things that I think is both interesting and sometimes difficult about college fencing is that you kind of – if you have a dual-gender team, you end up in a space where a lot of times those two teams can have different cultures. But they're training together. They're traveling together. They're competing separately.
When you go to a college event, women's team, men's team are scored separately. The results aren't combined with the exception of NCAA championships. So sometimes, that can create extra conflict, where it's like these are just two teams that aren't going to click. Sometimes, they click great. But sometimes, they don't. Maybe one of those cultures is stronger than the other. It also divides the coach's attention between two teams.
Being a single-gender program allows us to really focus on just building one single cohesive culture. Everybody's working towards the same team goals, the same squad goals. We're able to really focus our training environment on women's fencing, on a specific set of opponents, instead of this broader range. So I think that really shapes a lot of how we do things. It allows us to, I believe, build a more cohesive team culture.
I think the other kind of really big thing is just being at a place like Northwestern. Having one of the best academic institutions in the country that really values academic success, but also being part of a big 10 institution with that values athletics almost as much as any school in the country, and put support and resources, energy into it creates this amazing environment where our athletes just – sometimes, I feel like they're spoiled. They just have so much opportunity and so many resources to be successful because of that just complete investment in the student-athlete experience here is incredible.
[00:24:38] BW: But from what I know about college athletics, I imagine that you still have to do a little bit of fighting for that extra funding. I imagine you're always asking your administrators saying if we had a little bit more, we could do a little bit more. How receptive are your bosses, for lack of a better word, to the efforts you want to take to strengthen the Northwestern Fencing Program?
[00:25:00] ZM: Yes. I mean, I think every sport ever wants, and every coach ever wants more for their program. It's not a fencing-specific thing. I mean, I'm in meetings with the head coaches from all the programs at Northwestern. From every single sport, I hear, “Oh, we need this. We need that. I wish we had that. I wish we had this.” Talking with coaches from other programs and other sports across the country, that's the case.
We're in a really fortunate space here at Northwestern that, A, like I said, that investment in athletics is really unparalleled. For us, specifically, I think one of the things that makes our program pretty unique is that our direct sport administrator, who is the CFO of the athletic department is also a former fencer.
[00:25:39] BW: There you go.
[00:25:40] ZM: So he – it's unique for us. We got somebody in our administration who understands the sport, understands the needs, understands the nuances. It's really funny. Our athletic director shows up to competitions. We hosted NCAA Regionals last weekend or a week and a half ago here. He came and he sits next to our sport administrator who's explaining the sport to him and nuances and things. So having that kind of advocate in our program is really impactful. I think he's also somebody who has done a lot to support the sport broadly in collegiate fencing in different roles. So it's just a great advocate for us and for our sport.
[00:26:21] BW: That's great. When I think about the landscape of collegiate fencing, I think there's like 45 programs or something. So not every fencing program is in a conference that aligns perfectly with what conference the other sports at that institution might be. So that leads me to ask. Like what has been the impact of the Midwest Fencing Conference and the Central Collegiate Fencing Conference on the growth of collegiate fencing in your region specifically?
[00:26:49] ZM: Sure, I think a little bit history. So the Midwest Fencing Conference, I think, came out of sort of the dissolution of big 10 fencing, nineties-ish. If you want a history podcast, I'm not the right person for it. It existed for a long time as sort of a combination of the varsity teams in the Midwest and the club teams in the Midwest, as a way to sort of bridge that gap. If a varsity team dropped a program, was dropped from a university, there could still be a club team. Those athletes could still have a meaningful experience.
Then with the hope that these club team is being part of this would push and make the effort to change to varsity. Unfortunately, I don't think that was really happening very much. We did see it with Denison. I don't know how much of that had to do with Midwest Fencing Conference versus not. But it was a really good environment. It also started to get bigger and bigger as club teams grew, which led to sort of a separation of the Midwest Fencing Conference and the now Central Collegiate Fencing Conference, where the Midwest Conference is club teams. The Central Collegiate is the varsity teams, which I think has been great. The varsity teams get to build and invest in a conference championship that really has this varsity aspect. It's not big 10. But it has – we've strived to be there.
At the same time, the Midwest Fencing Conference, which for years was dominated by varsity programs and what varsity programs wanted, now is club-owned and run in a way that really fits those club teams’ needs some goals and allows them to build a structure that works for them. I have a foot in both doors, having a men's club team and a women's varsity team. So I help with both and support both. But both create just really strong opportunities for if a new varsity program or a new club team pops up. Hey, there's this existing infrastructure. You can get in. You can get events scheduled. You have a championship event. You have all these support resources in the form of – from a club perspective. Other clubs from a varsity perspective. These other varsity coaches who – it's a tight community. It's a small community in fencing.
We want everyone to be successful. We want to lift each other up. So having that network built and existing just allows somebody to step in and just get the support they need immediately, especially if they're new to college athletics.
[00:29:08] BW: I'd love for you to put on your coach hat for a second and talk about mental preparation and whether you're addressing a team from Northwestern, getting ready for a meet this weekend, let's say, or just talking to someone at a NAC. How do you recommend they factor mental preparation into their game? How do you help your athletes build that mental resilience that it's going to take to be competitive at the highest level?
[00:29:36] ZM: I think it's critical. It's a little cliché, but everyone calls fencing physical chess. There’s a huge mental component to the sport, and one of the things that makes fencing what it is is it doesn't matter physically your strengths or limitations. Anyone can be successful if they put in the work. Obviously, there is a huge technical component and a physical component to success.
But I can have the best technique and the best physical attributes in the world. But if my – if I freak out anytime I get hit or I don't have a tactical approach to my fencing, I'm going to lose way more than I win, simply because I can't actually use the tools that I have. So on the flip side, you see people who are really limited physically or from a technical perspective only can really do like two or three actions. But because of their confidence, their focus, their belief in themselves, they achieve unbelievable heights on really a few simple choices because they put so much work and have so much strength in these other areas.
I mean, I think it's everything, right? I think you need the physical. You need the tactical. You need the tactical. You need the mental. But the mental really holds it all together, those mental components. So for our program, specifically, it's something we work on individually as coaches. I think it's one of the things where you have to kind of understand your athlete. If you don't understand where they're coming from, the challenges they're facing, it's not a one-size-fits-all. Area. Nothing about sport really is but especially from a mental component. What are they specifically struggling with? There are commonalities for sure.
That reset I talked about earlier at NCAA championships is a huge one. One of our assistant coaches said, “Memory like a goldfish,” right? Like forget immediately. But we invest in it in those ways, building relationships. Then most importantly, we have an integrated sports psychologist with our program. So she does team sessions, small group sessions with our team, tool development, skill development, and the application. Then she also works, and we have a broader team for this, individually with any student athletes who want it. We really encourage it.
Again, speaking to my experience, we had a sports psychologist at Duke that was available for us, and I never took advantage of it. Then I graduated college and continued to pursue a competitive fencing career and was like, “Oh, I need to like actually invest a lot of energy and work into this. So if I want to like make the jump in my fencing, and I had a free resource at my disposal that I chose not to use, and now it's no longer there.”
[00:32:15] BW: Yes. Not so free anymore.
[00:32:17] ZM: Yes. Not so free after college. It's amazing how much things cost when they're not just provided for you. So I always really encourage our athletes. Like even if you don't think you need it right now, especially as a first year coming into college, you've never been through a collegiate fencing season. Start building that relationship. Start building those tools, so you have them when you do need them. When that first moment of unbelievable pressure comes down on you.
Again, speaking my own experience, my very first college meet. I was a pretty accomplished fencer, and I fenced my first bout. I walked up the strip, and my coach was like, “Hey, we're going to sub you out.” I was like, “You should. You 100% should.” Whatever that was, I wasn't fencing. I was just standing there getting hit because I was so freaked out by the whole experience. Then I had a couple rounds, and I reset, and I was fine. But that happens in different spaces throughout the season in very different ways.
So, yes, I just really encourage our athletes to lean into that resource, even beyond the fencing component, right? For me, sport, fencing is about helping us grow and develop as people. So much of that is resilience, mental focus, the ability to bounce back from different setbacks. Doing that work translates into your academics; bad test, bad question on a test, bad homework, right? How do I bounce back from that? So those skills expand beyond fencing.
[00:33:44] BW: Yes. You get them for four years. When they leave, they're better people because of the experiences they had in your program. So I'd kind of like to wrap up with talking about your own future and what some of your long-term goals are for your own coaching career, as well as for the Northwestern Fencing Program.
[00:34:01] ZM: For me, my goals for myself never really change. It's I want to be the best coach I can be. I want to continue to learn through this sport. I've been in this sport since I was six years old, actively in the sport since I was six years old. There are some people fewer these days who have images in their mind of my dad refereeing with me strapped to a baby carrier like on his chest. So like I've been around the sport my whole life. It's given me so much. It's helped me grow in so many ways. Transitioning from athlete to coach, it just changed the way that it did that. So for me, it's just how can it continue to help me develop and grow as a person? How can I use my role to help these athletes, these people continue to develop and grow?
Winning is important because winning is a goal that helps us be stronger day to day. It helps us push ourselves. Winning for winning is whatever for me. So do I want us to be the best women's team in the country? Yes, that's always a goal we have for our program. We always want to be the best women's team. But because it helps us be better day-to-day, helps us develop the skills to be more impactful in our day-to-day lives outside of fencing.
So that's always what we're aiming for is that team success, individual success as a means to help everybody get better and grow. That's very much where we are as a program. We got a new facility two years ago. That's unbelievable. Three years ago now, we have all these great support resources to just be really successful in what we're aiming to do. So now, it's just doing that work.
[00:35:34] BW: Yes. I think we'll leave it there. That's Zach moss, the Head Coach of the Northwestern Fencing Program. Zach, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. A really inspiring and interesting conversation, and I wish you good luck the rest of the season and beyond.
[00:35:48] ZM: Thanks, Bryan. Really appreciate the conversation, and thank you very much.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:35:52] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you liked this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
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