Today we have not one but two special guests whose journeys have been intertwined ever since their first lunges at Scarsdale Fencing Center. First up is Will Morrill — a former Cadet World Champion who’s now tearing it up on the collegiate scene with the Columbia Lions. Alongside him is Emilio Gonzalez, fresh off winning individual Cadet gold and helping Team USA claim team gold at this year’s Junior & Cadet World Championships in Wuxi, China.
today we have not one but two special guests whose journeys have been intertwined ever since their first lunges at Scarsdale Fencing Center.
First up is Will Morrill — a former Cadet World Champion who’s now tearing it up on the collegiate scene with the Columbia Lions. Alongside him is Emilio Gonzalez, fresh off winning individual Cadet gold and helping Team USA claim team gold at this year’s Junior & Cadet World Championships in Wuxi, China.
These two aren’t just teammates on the international stage; they’re training partners, friendly rivals, and close friends who’ve pushed each other to new heights since day one. Today, we’ll talk about what it felt like to stand atop the podium together in Wuxi, how Will is balancing Ivy League life with NCAA fencing, what’s next for Emilio as he starts weighing college options, and plenty of stories from their shared journey in sabre.
We’ll alternate questions so each athlete gets the hot seat in turn — and wrap things up with a rapid-fire Quick Hits round where they’ll both answer the same five quirky questions. It’s going to be a mix of thoughtful reflection, friendly banter, and a few surprises along the way.
EPISODE 5
[INTRO]
[0:00:01] BW: Welcome to First to 15, the podcast that takes you inside the minds out of today's most compelling fencers. I'm Bryan Wendell, and today we actually have two special guests whose journeys have been kind of intertwined since they both started together at Scarsdale Fencing Center. First up, we have Will Morrill, who is a former Cadet World Champion, and is now tearing it up on the collegiate scene with Columbia, and we also have Emilio Gonzalez, who won Cadet Gold in Wuxi, and also both of these guys were on the team that won Team Gold at the Junior and Cadet World Championships this summer.
So, they’re teammates on the international stage, they also are longtime training partners, they've competed against each other a ton, and friends who kind of push each other in fencing and beyond. So, we'll talk about what it was like to stand together on the podium in Wuxi. We'll ask Will about balancing his life in fencing with being an Ivy League student and also what's next for Emilio.
[EPISODE]
[0:00:57] BW: So, lots to talk about guys. Congratulations and welcome to the podcast, Will and Emilio.
[0:01:01] WM: Hi, thank you for having us.
[0:01:04] BW: All right, so we're going to just kind of bounce back and forth between the two of y'all because we've got two guests and each of you could fill up your own episode but we've got both of you together here today which is a lot of fun. So, Will, we'll start with you. Congrats on the team goal.
[0:01:17] WM: Thank you so much. Thank you.
[0:01:19] BW: It was super exciting. Yes, so being a team champion, what does that mean and what's special about doing it with three other guys who also have been working just as hard as you, to even get there to that stage?
[0:01:31] WM: I mean, yes, everyone's dream when they go to world championships is to become individual world champion, but I think there's like a completely unique and completely special feeling when it comes to the team championship, especially when, as it was this year in Wuxi, you're with a group of people that you really like have a lot of experience with and care about a lot. So yes, I would say like my first priority training for the competition, like in all the hours that I'm spending in the gym or on the strip, and I'm fencing about something about how can I do this differently or how can I push myself in whatever way so that I can do the best in the individual competition.
But then at the end of the day, the team competition is always just so much more fun. It's so much more enjoyable. And it's just great to share something with a group of guys that you've trained with. There's just no feeling like it, honestly.
[0:02:18] BW: Yes. And that group of guys also included obviously Colin Heathcock and Cody Walter Ji. And then Emilio, over to you, you were kind of the newcomer in this group. Was there any pressure knowing that like, these guys have won it all before and you're the new guy, like, are you going to fit on the team, so to speak, not that you haven't had great results on your own, but still, was there any of that?
[0:02:40] EG: Yes, there was a little bit of nerves, obviously, Will, Colin, Cody were the core three members, but I knew from how I was doing the season that I belonged on this team and I worked really hard to put all my effort into it. I fenced junior cadet and junior team so I was feeling pretty tired but to be able to be on the same team with those guys and to be able to witness the history that we've achieved was just like a phenomenal experience.
[0:03:08] BW: And then, Emilio, we're going to get to your cadet gold medal in a second, but first let's talk about the junior competition. Will, do I remember right that you and Emilio actually fenced each other?
[0:03:19] WM: We did. Yes, fun fact.
[0:03:21] BW: Yes, fun fact indeed. And when you see that happen on the tableau, well, first of all, when you see the potential for it to happen, are you even thinking it when you look early on like, “Okay, if he wins and I win, then we're going to end up with each other.”
[0:03:33] WM: Of course. Yes. I mean, so I know Emilio. I'm sure you could ask him more about this, but he never likes to look at the tableau. He only wants people to tell him like who the next bout is or even like just let the referee tell him when he gets called to the strip, but I'm the kind of person that, I don't know if you've ever seen like Avengers Infinity War when Doctor Strange is like calculating all the possibilities to beat Thanos, that's like me with my bracket. I'm thinking, okay, he wins and then he wins and then he wins and then in the finals I have to fence him. It's honestly probably something that I shouldn't do, but I do it nonetheless
So, when I first saw Emilio in my tableau, obviously, I didn't want to fence him because we're teammates and I know he's very good at fencing. But I was like hanging around him and I didn't want to tell him because I know that he doesn't want to know that. So, it was something that was in the back of my mind during my first few bouts.
[0:04:15] EG: Yes, just to add on, I kind of – Will was fencing almost on the same strip as me.
[0:04:19] WM: We were on the same strip, actually. We were on the same strip.
[0:04:23] EG: He went, and then I went, and like I didn't have to move. So, I kind of knew that we might've been in the same path, but then I think I found out right after I used the bathroom from the bout I just fenced, and I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I'm fencing Will in the 32 of my first Junior World Championships.
[0:04:41] BW: Yes, because for those who maybe don't know, the way that these tournaments are often run is the same section of the bracket is on the same strip, right? So, you kind of are hanging out on that same strip for most of the tableau, right? You have a sense that if you see this person leaving the strip when you're coming on, that maybe you're going to end up hitting them at some point. Is that right?
[0:05:02] EG: Yes, that's right.
[0:05:03] BW: Okay. So, what is it like fencing, and I know I asked you guys this in Wuxi as well, but what is it like fencing someone that you know so well and how does it differ from someone who you're like, “Oh, who is this kid? I've never seen this person's name before?”
[0:05:16] WM: I guess, I can answer that one.
[0:05:17] BW: Yes, please.
[0:05:17] WM: Honestly, it's terrible, like I really don't like fencing people that I train with a lot. I mean, yes, on one hand you could say that I know kind of what he does. I know some strategy that might work against him or I know like if I cut to three, like if I hit him in three, for example. But honestly, I'd say that like overriding that is just having like the mental factor of somebody that you've known for so long and somebody that's your friend and whatever relationship you have with that person because people train with each other, but they have a wide range of relationships with each other.
But just like with me and Emilio, we've known each other for so long and like we've been training together. I remember the first time that I started sabre fencing, it was a summer camp and I was 10 years old and Emilio was also at that camp. I don't know if it was his first time fencing but I remember the exact time that I started he was at that exact camp and then we've just been training together ever since then. When you have that kind of bond with someone, I'm sure a lot of people do the same thing, but you try your hardest to ignore it, and like try to push that down and be like this is just a random kid from the Czech Republic that I've never seen in my life. But it just kind of like creeps into your mind whether you try to fight it or not.
[0:06:25] EG: Yes, just to add on, me and Will have been fencing for eight years and we always pull each other out of the brackets. I think this season we fenced maybe I think three times, three or four times.
[0:06:34] WM: So, we fenced like two times at Summer Nationals and then Boston and then another NAC. So, five times including World Championships.
[0:06:41] EG: Yes. So, we had obviously that history. I mean, it's a good competitive rivalry, but you never want to have that bout at a World Championships.
[0:06:50] WM: Exactly. Yes.
[0:06:52] BW: Yes. I mean, obviously, it's just luck or the draw. Well, you have some say based on how you do in pools, of course, but after that, it's a lot of just you're relying on how the other people did, right? So yes, in pools that you had nothing to do with. That's got to be a challenge.
But going back to starting at Scarsdale Fencing Center, like, did you ever imagine when you first saw each other and started just sparring against each other, let's say at Scarsdale, that someday you both would be like two of the best sabre fencers in the country? Could you tell early on that the skill was there and that you two had something special? Will, we’ll start with you.
[0:07:25] WM: Yes, sure. I mean, definitely not. I always think about like when I get a good result, or for example, when I made Senior World Team this year, I just think back to when I started fencing and how excited I was to qualify for Summer Nationals, or qualify for Junior Olympics, and just how far I've come. Honestly, I kind of become desensitized to it now when I go to these great competitions, or I'm pictured with amazing fencers, or I even just get to be around such great talent. But I never would have even imagined being in this position when I was just starting out fencing or just doing my first summer camp when I was 10 years old.
[0:08:01] BW: Yes. Emilio, what's this dream been like for you?
[0:08:04] EG: Yes, for me, I mean, even starting at Tim Morehouse, I was like always the kid who wanted to win. I was the kid who was –
[0:08:10] WM: That's true, that's very true.
[0:08:11] EG: – screaming in practice down 14-0. I didn't care, I just wanted to win. So, I guess I always had that fight inside of me. I didn't think when I was younger, if I was going to be a world champion, but I always knew that I wanted to win at all costs, and I still see that side to me today.
[0:08:30] BW: Yes, let's talk about that, Emilio, since you brought it up, I want to go back to what was going through your mind when you got that individual gold medal. I mean, the day before in juniors, you had had a good result, a top 16, and then the next day to come back out and become a world in like the best under 17 sabre fencer in the entire world. I mean, what was that moment like?
[0:08:51] EG: Yes, it was obviously one of the best moments of my life. I mean, both days were emotional roller coasters. I had a 14-14 and the 32 down 13-14. And then after that bout, I kind of knew that like, all right, I have to do this. But yes, when I won, it was a relief. I was really excited. It was like all my hard work just paid off right in that moment and it was really special.
[0:09:16] BW: Yes, I think it's, I mean, just watching it live was super inspiring and knowing about the journey that had gotten you to that point. Will, you watched and you were there to kind of cheer Emilio off.
[0:09:28] WM: I was definitely there, yes.
[0:09:29] EG: Yes, he was screaming, he was screaming, yes.
[0:09:31] BW: Yes, I mean, what was that like for you? You'd been there before yourself, and obviously, this has extra meaning because this isn't just your USA teammate, but also your club teammate.
[0:09:41] WM: Yes, for sure. First, I want to say, as soon as I saw Emilio win that bout 15-14, I knew that he would win before that happened, but he has a kind of I guess trend of having like some close bouts at the start of the tournament like 15-14 in the round of 128 and then killing everybody else. So, once I saw that, I knew that it was over.
But yes, I mean as Emilio can tell you I was there screaming very loudly during every single bout. I was trying to help him out, coach him a little bit, while also supporting him while he was fencing, and I just thought it would be such a great like kind of mirror image between the two of our fencing trajectories or careers to have us both win the same tournament at the same age, two years apart. I thought it's just like a really nice whole thing and it reflects really greatly on our coach, who has the opportunity as both of our students to like bring us to that stage and to support us all the way throughout there.
So, I think it just reflects really great on him, very nice like holistic picture to have us both at the top of the podium at the same event. And I think it just shows how much potential we both have.
[0:10:43] BW: Emilio, do you remember, were you watching when Will won his Cadet World Championship, watching from back home? Do I remember thinking I would love for that to be me someday?
[0:10:53] EG: Yes. At the time, I didn't really know what world championships was. I think Will wants to practice and Achiko was telling me, “He's world champion, he’s world champion.” I was like, “What does that mean?” But yes, I mean, when I re-watched the bouts and re-watched the competition, my goal was obviously to reenact that. And yes, I think I did a great job with that.
[0:11:14] BW: So, in the club, like week to week. Will, let's say this is a week where you're not training at Columbia as well. But if you're at Scarsdale, what's the dynamic like in there? Will, I know you're like a little bit older. So, are you mentoring Emilio or is he actually teaching you things? Or what is the dynamic like? Because I’ve never seen you two train together.
[0:11:30] WM: I mean, he definitely gives me a lesson or two when we're fencing, by busting me up. But I'd say, I don't think he's ever really like given me advice at practice. But I mean, I definitely learned a lot about my fencing and improve a lot by fencing Emilio, and I'm sure he would say the same thing about me. But yes, for the last like two, three years, I've always been trying to like give helpful advice when I can, or like see a lot of the time Emilio would make some of the similar mistakes that I would be making, not only when I was his age, but also the same mistakes that I make now. So, just trying to point that out for him, and try to not do it in a demeaning way, because if you lose some touches in a row and then somebody’s telling you what you're doing wrong. It can be very frustrating.
But I was just always try to be mentoring and guiding him not only with the way that he's fencing or the strategy that he employs, but also just the way that he's conducting himself on the strip. Even a good example from Wuxi is that Emilio like the other person would start early and then Emilio not to call him out with point at the other person saying, “Look, he started early,” and that's something that not every international sabre referee loves to see. So, just to try to give him a pointer there, as someone with more experience who's like, “Hey, you probably shouldn't do that.” Just little things like that, I think, hopefully, he would say has helped his fencing over time.
[0:12:39] EG: Yes. Just to add on, my first Division I win in Kansas City. Will got knocked out, I believe in the round of 32, and he was coaching me or mentoring me in the round of eight and the round of four, and then eventually the final. I think that was very special because it was my first Division I win. And yes, even in practice, he's always giving me advice. And I always take it to heart and I always try and implement it. But yes, I think I feel a little bit better giving advice to him and my teammates.
[0:13:08] BW: Yes, that's one thing that I mean, you don't really see in other sports, but you do see in fencing is someone gets knocked out earlier than they were wanting or expecting. And then instead of just like going back and I mean, I'm just going to say like pouting about it, they actually stay in coach and I've seen that with other fencers too. What is that mentality that makes you say, “This is not my day, but that doesn't mean I have to like make it all about me sulking.” Will, you've won plenty, but you've also been knocked out early a few times. What causes that mindset?
[0:13:38] WM: I mean, honestly, my strategy whenever I have a loss is to like release all of my emotion very quickly and kind of like just let it all out, go to a kind of private place and whatever venue or convention center I'm in and find somewhere where I can just like cry as much as I want or break something or whatever emotions I'm feeling, just let it all out. Then as soon as I feel like I'm ready to resurface, I'll try to go help out, cheer my teammates. Then that also helps me because I'm not thinking about my loss for the time being, right? I'm not wasting my energy thinking about what I did wrong or reflecting over how many points I lost, but I'm just like directing all that energy into helping my teammates.
Another example I could get from Wuxi which very well fits the situation is not only in cadets was I screaming and cheering for Emilio, but in juniors, after I lost to Emilio, I was very upset. I had a lot of mixed emotions just towards the whole situation in general, but then I saw he was fencing the person that I lost to last year at Junior Worlds. So, I was like, okay, I need to give him lots of advice. I need to be right there for him, screaming for him. I was like, right by his strip by the time he started, telling him the things that weren't and were working for me when I fenced him, him being the person that I lost to last year.
[0:14:52] EG: Yes. You just sparked a memory. I remember fencing that match. And I think I hit my opponent really hard. And then all I hear from Will is like, “Hit them harder.”
[0:15:01] WM: I think I deserve that.
[0:15:03] EG: It was so funny. But yes, during that junior event, having Will there, screaming at me especially against a really experienced fencer who was a lot bigger than me, a lot taller than me, to have that aggressive motivation coming from will was very special. Yes, honestly when I lose, I think I have pretty much the same mentality. Just go to a private place, let everything out. But I always try and keep in mind like every loss means something. If you don't learn from it, it's a complete waste. So, I always try and think about that after the competition, but just to let all my emotions out and then see if any of my teammates are still in and just watch, and maybe I can also learn from them during that competition.
[0:15:46] BW: Yes, that's great advice for younger fencers or anybody, every loss means something at a local tournament, regional tournament or at the World Championships.
[0:15:55] WM: Very true.
[0:15:55] BW: That’s great. So, back to coaching for a second. A lot of people who watch international competitions will know this, that if it's Team USA versus Team USA, if
it's Will versus Emilio, then there's no coaches, right? That's the kind of the rule. So, you've got the break after the eighth touch and you are just standing there by yourself. You go get some water, like what are you doing in that moment because there's obviously no one in your ear saying here's what I'm seeing, here's what you need to do differently. I'm curious about that and I've never actually asked anybody how they use that minute when it's them by themselves. Will, do you want to tell your strategy?
[0:16:30] WM: Yes, well obviously it's not just when you're fencing teammates but there's always situations where your coach is not going to be there or somebody that doesn't normally coach you. But Achiko, our coach can't travel to every tournament, he can't always be there for me. I'd say part of being a good coach, not being a good athlete, but being a good coach is setting your student up for the situations where you're not there. I think that's very key because the truth is, your coach is not always going to be there. If the athlete is just acting as like a puppet, just doing exactly what the coach says all the time, then they're not fencing smart and they're not thinking for themselves. I think that Achiko has prepared us both to like be fencers that can adapt well and can think for ourselves when we're in those situations where we're either fencing another American or fencing where our coach isn't there.
So, part of it, like if I'm trying to go inside my head during that 60 seconds is take 15 seconds to take deep breaths, drink some water, use my towel, wipe my shoes off, and then I can start thinking about what's working for me, what touches have a high success rate, what touches are not working for me, what touches are working for him, what touches are not working for him, and how can I adjust to that? Then also, like hearing my coach's voice in my head, thinking, what would he tell me in this situation? Just all those things kind of run through my mind during the 60 seconds.
[0:17:47] BW: I love that. Emilio, how do you use that minute?
[0:17:50] EG: Yes, just to touch on what he said, this season I fenced a lot of Americans at World Cups. So, I think I had that experience. Especially, in cadet, there are times when I've been down in the break, and then I just kind of reset and then push through in those moments, especially against Will in the bout 32. I was just trying to get my breath under control, think about our past matches, think about what's working now, think about what I can change. And yes, just to get myself ready for the second half, didn't want to overthink it, just to have fun and enjoy in the moment. It’s usually objective during Cadet World Championships.
[0:18:31] BW: Yes. So, let's switch gears now and talk about college fencing for you, Will. Columbia, really great school academically and in fencing as well. What's the first year been like as we're doing this interview in May? So, I know you're wrapping up finals. How has it been competing as a student athlete? How are you balancing life on the fencing road while also trying to keep up with your classes?
[0:18:55] EG: Yes, I actually should be studying right now. Probably I have a final on Thursday, so. Honestly, it's been great. I've had a great first year. I don't know if there's much that I would change going back in time leading up to my first year. So, I've been really happy at Columbia. When it comes to managing like classes and traveling and competing and practicing, it's definitely a lot. But at the same time, it's not like considerably harder to manage than it was when I was in high school.
I mean, yes, the classes are harder. I'm practicing a little bit more. I also have more competitions on the collegiate level that I was not competing in before. But I wouldn't say it's too much worse than high school. My strategy, I think it's really important to prepare yourself well for your classes and for your competing and that has been like the biggest change for me. I've always been somebody who's very like scheduled, kind of organized. So, I try to make sure my schedule is optimized to practice in the right times and preparing good classes with like talking to my teammates, who have been very welcoming and helpful about what professors are good.
Those like little things all add up to make the experience a lot smoother and a lot better. I tried to pick a little harder classes first semester while I wasn't competing internationally so much. And then since I knew I would have like the Seoul Grand Prix where I miss a week of school and World Championships where I miss over a week of school, trying to pick a little bit easier classes during the spring semester, that was definitely very helpful for me.
[0:20:21] BW: Emilio, you've got the balancing act too. In high school, you've got your homework and then you're also competing at cadet European events in addition to all these FIE events. How are you managing it all? Do your teachers and your friends understand like what you're up to on the weekends when you're gone and then you come back and you've got a medal and a story?
[0:20:42] EG: So yes, my high school is Xavier. It's really, the teachers are really supportive of what I do. But yes, I mean, just communicating with them a couple of days before, just to let them know what days I’m going to miss, and then I'd be trying to do work on the plane. Then after world championships, I had to study for my AP tests. Now, I'm starting to study for the SAT. So, I'm starting to lay back like a couple of practices, but I'm still trying to keep my foot forward. If I need to skip a practice or two, I'll just take it off. But yes, the goal is to optimize both fencing and economics right now.
[0:21:22] BW: Staying with you, Emilio, like, what's the plan for college? A lot of people see fencing as a nice pathway to get into some of these great colleges like Columbia. What's the plan there?
[0:21:32] EG: Right now, I'm just focusing on SAT, getting ready for my first Senior World Cup. I guess I'll make that decision in October, make sure I tour every college, make sure I get the feel for everything. But yes, right now I'm focusing on the SAT, focusing on getting my finals all good, just to get everything good before the summer so I can relax in the summer. Then once I do that SAT, I can just be more relaxed when making this decision.
[0:22:01] BW: A very diplomatic answer, and I totally get it. So, Will, like, what advice would you have not just for Emilio, but for other people who have had success in fencing, even if they're not a cadet world champion, but let's say they've done well in the national scene? What advice do you have for them and from what you learned in your own journey to college, being recruited as a collegiate athlete?
[0:22:20] WM: Yes. I mean, be very open and communicative, like if you're talking to college coaches, be very open with them and be honest with them. I think that's very important. Just like you should be open and honest with everybody, but I think that's a particular instance. And then when it comes to like academics and obviously everybody has different interests and different goals when it comes to balancing fencing and academics. For me, I'm still trying to find that balance, how much I'm investing in academics versus whatever career goals I might have versus how much energy I wanted to put into fencing. That's a kind of balance that evolves over time, especially as you get to college.
But as somebody who's trying to get recruited as a student, I would say, yes, be open. Don't be afraid to reach out to anybody. Don't be afraid to ask anybody for something. Don't be afraid to ask people for help is my biggest piece of advice.
[0:23:12] BW: Yes, I think that's smart. So, Emilio, you were talking about this summer, things are going to slow down a little bit. Obviously, Summer Nationals is in there, but when you do take a rare break from fencing and homework and all this other stuff, how do you like to, and SAT prep, how do you like to kind of kick back and unwind? Like, what are some hobbies that you have on your radar?
[0:23:33] EG: During the summer, obviously, I like cooking. I like –
[0:23:36] WM: Obviously.
[0:23:39] EG: Then, yes, I mean, I still like to be active. Right now, I'm with the trainer, [Name Matthew inaudible 0:23:44], and we're training every Tuesday doing weightlifting, boxing. And I think even during the season, like keeping up with boxing and like other activities, I think that helps with fencing just to get your mind off of it. But yes, in the summer, I'd like go on vacation, have fun with my family, my brother, just to get a break from fencing.
[0:24:05] BW: Let me go to something you said about weight training, because I, actually, this conversation came up in Wuxi with some other fencers, actually, some épée fencers, and they were saying, at what age do you incorporate weight training in? Because when you're a young fencer, you might be wanting to do that early, and maybe some people would say, “You don't put that into your fencing regime until you're 14, 15, whatever it is.” How did you know when to incorporate that into your regimen?
[0:24:36] EG: Yes. I think it varies depending for the fencer, especially at a young age. I think I started getting really into it when I was in my like 14,15 years, just because that was the time when I started to do cadet and juniors competitions and being like a skinny kid who wants to beat everyone, I always had – I need like to be lifting weights in order to have the strength to compete with them. And I think it's been really successful, especially in these Division I competitions, when every bout goes to the last point, and it could be based on anything, it could be off timing, it could be off strength, it could be off mental. So, just to have all those attributes, I think has contributed a lot to my fencing, especially on the higher level.
[0:25:20] BW: Will, same to you about the hobbies and other non-fencing, maybe cross-training things that you like to do or other ways you like to stay active when you don't have a sabre in your hand?
[0:25:30] EG: Honestly, I don't cross-train too much. I probably don't cross-train as much as I should, but I plan on taking like maybe a month, a month and a half break after Senior World Championships this summer, which is probably the longest break I've ever taken from fencing, because whenever I take a break, I'll like, “You know what, it's good for my mental health, it's good for my physical health, if I take however much time off.” And then like five days later, I'm losing my mind and doing advances around the house and trying to hand fence my brother and driving everybody crazy. I'll just go back to training.
But now I've had a little bit of an injury with my knee, so I think it would be very beneficial for me to take some time off and try to get that as close to 100% as it can be before I go back to training in preparation for the collegiate fencing year. But when I do take time off, like, Emilio lied. He didn't say playing video games because he does like to do that. And that's something that I like to do as well. Spending time with my family, spending time with my brother. I love cooking, spending time with my girlfriend, just the people that I don't spend as much time with when I'm training so heavily during the year. I'm trying to slow down a little bit.
[0:26:41] BW: Yes, but you won't be slowing down quite yet because you mentioned Tbilisi. And Tbilisi, obviously, the site of the Senior World Championships this year. So, how do you expect that experience to differ from the Junior and Cadet Worlds for you?
[0:26:57] EG: I haven't really thought about the experience much. I've been thinking more about how I can prepare myself for it. But I mean, for Junior and Cadet Worlds, This was my fourth year on the junior team. So, it was definitely like something that I was more acclimated to. But at the same time, when I just started out in my junior pool, I was fencing very nervous, like, honestly, more nervous than I started fencing when I did my first junior event.
[0:27:21] BW: Interesting.
[0:27:23] WM: But I think it just all comes down to like what pressure and what expectation that I put on myself for the event. I have very high expectations for myself, I like to set very high goals. I think my mentality has gotten a lot better in the past year. I think like I've been a much calmer fencer and I've gained that calmness through confidence in my fencing. My confidence in my fencing hasn't really faltered and I will have that same confidence going into the Senior World Championships. So hopefully, I'll be at a good headspace when I get on the strip for the first time. But other than that, I'm just super excited to be there, be with the team. I was a training partner with the team and the 2023 World Championships, which was like an amazing experience, and I had so much fun and learned so much from being a part of that crew, especially how cool it was to see Eli win World Championships and to see the team take bronze, which were both historic events. But I'm excited to try to make some history for myself.
[0:28:17] BW: Yes. So, it's your first, but it's also not because you had that opportunity to witness it in Milan, which had to have been, like you said, really inspiring and feeling like you were a part of it in a big way because the team got a medal there as well. So, Emilio, how about your goals going forward? I mean, Cadet World Champion, check that one off. What's next on the goals list for you? Maybe a short term, long term, however you want to answer that question.
[0:28:43] EG: Yes, I mean, I guess short term would just to be make another Junior and Cadet World Championship team. Being a part of that team was amazing and I would love to be a part of it again. Yes, as far as long term, I want to start doing more senior world cups, start getting on the board there and hopefully at least try and go for the senior team next year. And hopefully, that will put me in a good position to where I have experience for that Olympic qualification season for 2028. So yes, I guess my long-term goal would need to make LA, but right now my short-term goal would be to get on the senior circuit, get a taste for what that is as a tournament, and then build from there.
[0:29:25] BW: Yes, that's super exciting. All of these teams are determined by the point standing. So, a question for both of y'all, how often are you looking at the point standings, obsessing over them, calculating what ifs and scenarios for how, whether you're locked into this team or that team, and at the senior level, junior level, all these things. Will, are you one of those people who's looking at the standings?
[0:29:50] WM: I am a big points person. I used to look at points so much when I was trying to make my first like cadet team, when I was trying to make senior team this year. I have like something in my Notes app on my phone called points. There, I just put all my calculations, like this is what this person needs, this is what this person needs. Am I like statistically locked? This was actually really bad because my girlfriend made Junior épée team earlier this year and she made it by maybe, it was something like ridiculous, like four points or 0.4 points or something. I was really calculating points there, all the strength factors and stuff.
I mean, I've started to do a little bit less. I'm now doing it a lot with FIE points to try to see if I can maybe squeeze into the top 16 in the world, which is like a big goal of mine. I'd say that's my primary goal for now is to make it into the top 16 in the world.
[0:30:40] BW: Which of course would mean you don't have to fence on the first day.
[0:30:42] WM: Yes, yes, to clear that up. That way you don't have to fence on the preliminary day at the Senior World Cups. But I'm definitely a huge points person.
[0:30:49] BW: Emilio, are you the same way?
[0:30:50] EG: Yes, I definitely check the points list more than I check my DE brackets. I mean, for the Junior World Championship qualification, I was pretty close with the guy who was number fifth. So, yes, I guess I look at it a little bit more definitely for the Junior. For the Cadet, I kind of knew I was locked. But I definitely looked at it a lot for the Junior. Now, I'm probably going to be looking at a lot for the Senior, trying to stay on the senior team. So yes.
[0:31:17] BW: Yes, I get it for sure. I also could see like, becoming too much of an obsession, frankly, where you're like, I need at least a 32 here, and then you're somehow like content with that, not necessarily that would be how y'all would think, but I could see someone saying, “Okay, I just need to get a 32 here,” and you don't want to just aim for that, right? It's a constant struggle, I imagine.
[0:31:41] WM: Yes, or to go the other way, you're saying, “I need a 32 here,” and then I put on so much pressure to make that 32 that I kind of crumble under it, which changes from person to person. I don't know if that's ever been an experience for me, but I've definitely heard of people who have had that happen to them.
[0:31:55] BW: Right. Yes, so we could go that way too. All right. So, in our last few minutes here, we're going to do our quick hit segment. Ever since we introduced this, it's always been me talking to one other person, but now we have two. So, for each of these, you're going to both answer just with the first thing that comes to mind or whatever. First up is, do you have like a pump-up song or some type genre of music that you listen to before a big bout? You’re like, I got to get in the right mindset here. Will, do you have a song or an artist that comes to mind?
[0:32:24] WM: Yes, I can go on a whole spiel, but I don't know if anybody knows LCD Soundsystem. I like to listen to LCD Soundsystem while I'm getting pumped up.
[0:32:31] EG: My pump-up song is like that by Kendrick Lamar. I listen to that all the time, yes.
[0:32:37] BW: Nice, nice. I know I said just one question, but for either of y'all, does it change over the course of the season or you kind of like stick into something?
[0:32:45] WM: Yes. It changes very much.
[0:32:47] BW: Yes.
[0:32:48] EG: I guess it changes for me sometimes.
[0:32:50] BW: Yes, it makes total sense. All right, so if you could have super power on the fencing strip, what would it be? Emilio, we'll start with you.
[0:32:59] EG: Oh, God. Probably slow motion.
[0:33:02] BW: Ah, nice.
[0:33:03] EG: Yes, I could definitely watch a little bit more, but yes, definitely slow motion.
[0:33:07] BW: How about you, Will?
[0:33:10] WM: Super speed. I think that was pretty self-explanatory. If you're The Flash, no one's beating you.
[0:33:15] BW: This is true, which is the – I will say, it's the opposite of slow motion.
[0:33:18] WM: If you ever watched like the X-Men. Have you seen the scene where Quicksilver's like running around, listening to Sweet Dreams, and everything's in slow motion? That's what I would like to imagine myself as.
[0:33:29] BW: Because he's going so fast that everybody else is –
[0:33:31] EG: Exactly. So, we pretty much said the same thing.
[0:33:34] BW: Yes. Obviously, you guys are both athletes. Do you have like a cheap meal or a celebration meal that you like to do that you wouldn't recommend eating like before a
competition, but you've got that gold medal and you're like, "All right, I'm going to eat this celebratory whatever.” Will?
[0:33:51] WM: Oh, I don't know. That's a hard one. I feel like I have so many cheat meals that I can't say why. Most meals are cheat meals for me when it comes to dieting. I'm not a big proprietor, but I would say like anything Korean food. I love Korean food.
[0:34:05] BW: Nice. Nice.
[0:34:07] WM: Not necessarily that it's unhealthy, but that I eat so much that it gets unhealthy.
[0:34:12] BW: Sure. Sure.
[0:34:12] EG: Yes. For me, it's Popeyes and Chipotle. I eat a whole bunch of that.
[0:34:17] BW: Okay. Trying to get some sponsorships for yourself and for the podcast. I love that. All right. And then actually you guys tipped this one before we started recording, but right now there's this whole thing going out, like who would win in a battle between a hundred men and one gorilla? And I would love to get the take on this. It can be any answer you want, whether the men have sabers in hand or not. Emilio, who wins that battle?
[0:34:40] EG: Well, I'm going to have to go with the hundred men.
[0:34:42] BW: Really? Okay.
[0:34:44] EG: Yeah, I think they'll just overwhelm the gorilla.
[0:34:45] WM: I'm going to have to agree there. I think the hundred men got it. I think the gorilla can't stop them all.
[0:34:52] BW: Maybe a few, but not all 100, right?
[0:34:53] WM: Exactly, yes.
[0:34:56] BW: And then question five, is there a dream fencing destination where you're saying, “Okay, please, FIE, schedule our next Sabre World Cup in this city.” It can be a city where they've never hosted fencing before or won that foil, and up they get to go to that sabre just doesn't pull. Will, we'll start with you.
[0:35:15] WM: I just have to say New York City. I think it'd be so cool to have a World Cup at home. I think there's, I mean, it's really expensive, but I think there's some cool places that they could put it. If I want to lead The United States though, I would say I think Tokyo would be really cool. I think foil has a World Cup there or somewhere close.
[0:35:31] BW: They do.
[0:35:32] WM: I went to Japan on vacation last summer and had a great time, and I think Tokyo would be awesome.
[0:35:35] BW: It would be great.
[0:35:37] EG: For me, I think, it'd be Cairo. I'm really interested in the pyramids. So, I think Cairo would be hopefully my dream destination. Hopefully they choose the next year.
[0:35:47] WM: I think they have it next year, honestly. I don't know if that's confirmed or not.
[0:35:49] BW: Yes. That would be great. I know épée has been there and then obviously, Senior Worlds was there, but yes, let's get sabre there, too. That's awesome.
Well, guys, this has been really exciting and I'm glad you suggest that I can't remember which one of you it was but said, “Hey, what if we just combine and do an episode together.” That was genius. So, great move there guys. Will Morrill, Emilio Gonzalez. Congratulations and good luck I'm sure I'll see you guys at another tournament soon. But in the meantime, congrats and yes, great job.
[0:36:20] WM: Thank you so much.
[0:36:20] EG: Thank you.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:36:21] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you liked this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the Strip. Bye.
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