Tim French, a foil coach at the Round Rock Fencing Club in Round Rock, Texas, shares how he got into fencing, his advice for young fencers just learning the sport, and how fencers at any level can absorb losses while also not getting too overcome by victories.
In this episode of First to 15, we're joined by Tim French, a foil coach at the Round Rock Fencing Club in Round Rock, Texas — which is near Austin. Tim is a product of the Round Rock Fencing Club himself and actually fenced at the U.S. Air Force Academy. He was an All-American there and fenced at the NCAA Championships, placing as high as eighth in men’s epee.
First to 15: The Official Podcast of USA Fencing
Host: Bryan Wendell
Cover art: Manna Creations
Theme music: Brian Sanyshyn
[00:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell, and in this show you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting, and insanely talented people in the sport we all love. First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. So whether you're an Olympian or a Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you. With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:40] BW: Our guest today is Tim French, who is currently a foil coach at the Round Rock Fencing Club in Round Rock, Texas, which is near Austin. Tim actually is a product of the Round Rock Fencing Club himself and then later fenced at the US Air Force Academy. He was an all American there and fenced at the NCAA championships, placing as high as eighth in men's epee. Welcome to the podcast, Tim.
[00:01:01] TF: Thanks, Bryan. I appreciate you having me on.
[00:01:03] BW: So how did you get into fencing yourself? What was your origin story for showing up for that first lesson?
[00:01:09] TF: Yeah. This is a great – I love telling the story. So my dad, he is a geologist and he had a one-year job transfer in the late ‘80s to London. He’s working with BP, so the temporary assignment. But while we’re there, I was a young kid. Essentially, their local YMCA is in the neighborhood. They call them leisure centers based on neighborhoods you live in. I had a week-long fencing class. So my sisters and I took that class. It was great. I was six years old. Sword fighting sounded awesome. I loved it.
Then we moved back to the States a couple of years later. My parents were trying to get me involved more formally in sports. I enjoyed fencing. I had that one experience with it that I enjoyed. We lived in Austin at the time. We don't know what's here, but we looked for fencing clubs. Sure enough, in a small suburb just north of Austin and Round Rock, there was a fencing club in this mall. So we started there. I was just before my ninth birthday, and kind of the rest is history. I started there at Round Rock Fencing Club with Gary Murray and then was fortunate to have a lot of success for the next few years in fencing. I was on four US national teams and went to the Air Force Academy and competed there in NCAA championships. So it was a great career. I’m really, really grateful and fortunate.
[00:02:26] BW: That's awesome. Gary's the one who actually suggested you for the podcast, so shout out to him. When you think back, and I know it was a while ago. I'm trying to think. I don't remember anything from when I was six. But when you think back, what was it that like really connected with you? Do you remember what made it so enticing?
[00:02:45] TF: I think there's a draw naturally for this romantic and almost kind of these primal sword fighting elements. I think that it's this individual competition, where it's you versus another person. It's dynamic. There's things that are happening. You have to adjust. I think that was really it. Some of the things that are still exciting about fencing to me still ring true. You're out there on your own, and so you have to perform and execute or not.
[00:03:13] BW: Do you see that in the young fencers who show up at the Round Rock Fencing Club? Do you see that same like passion in their eyes?
[00:03:20] TF: I do. In fact, a lot of times I will say that fencing is an individual team sport. That sounds like an oxymoron, of course. But there's the social element. There's camaraderie being developed. There's friendships being formed. Of course, there's competitions. So I think, really, what – To kind of tie in your question how I see then fencers that love competing, I try to instill and draw out from that natural competitiveness but also working together. You can't practice really by yourself. You have to have teammates, competitors to fence with. So I try to draw those things together. Yes, you're out there by yourself competing, but you're relying on your teammates to get better and to practice with them.
[00:04:04] BW: You could argue there's no stronger team than our military, right? So thanks for your service, first of all. What were some of your favorite memories from being on that team, on the Air Force Academy fencing team?
[00:04:16] TF: Yeah. I mean, it was a great team. I'm indebted to Abdel Salem who's, of course, very active in US Fencing, and he taught me a lot of things, not only about fencing but about life. So that was an incredibly enjoyable experience, just learning from him and his wealth of experience, performing at the top level of fencing, technically, but also just creating friendships that have lasted for decades from those times at the Air Force Academy. I saw one of my classmates a few weeks ago. There was a tournament where Air Force was competing at in San Antonio. So he and I went down there and had a chance to reconnect. The travel, you get to see different places. Yeah. I think that was it, friendships and then just learning a lot of great life lessons from Coach Salem.
[00:05:01] BW: That's great. Now, you're instilling some of those life lessons yourself. I understand you have some sons who are fencers. I know from having a couple of kids of my own that whenever I try to coach them in anything, it's almost impossible. Do you try to coach your own sons? Or do you leave that to other people at the club? Or what's that process been like?
[00:05:19] TF: Yeah, I do. So I have three sons, nine, seven, and five. Two oldest are in fencing, and I do coach them, and I'm very aware of or trying to kind of determine that balance. That can be a really tricky thing as a father, coaching your sons. So I think just being kind of understanding who they are, their strengths and their weaknesses. I will coach them, but they're also involved with other coaches at the club, so a mixed bag.
[00:05:46] BW: Right. I applaud you for taking that on because it's like you're with them all the time. Then you're also their coach. So that's got to be an extra challenge. But it sounds like you're up to the task.
[00:05:56] TF: Yeah. It's a journey, and I'm trying to do my best. But I'm keenly aware of some of the challenges of that dynamic.
[00:06:04] BW: You’ve seen as a coach fencers of all skill levels, right? What are some of the mistakes that new fencers make that you can identify and try to correct right away?
[00:06:17] TF: I mean, there's technical things that can be corrected. So I would say that, really, the biggest thing to be successful is just the ability to be coachable and listen to instruction. But I would say some of the mistakes that some fencers make is sometimes they get discouraged easily. If they jump into a competition, they might see their friends doing well or may not have the results that they want. It can be a difficult outcome and being discouraged. So what I would tell any new fencers, as they're getting started, if they're competing, remember, this takes a long time to be good.
Fencing has a very steep learning curve, so don't be discouraged by early results that might not be up to your expectations. Set achievable goals and just keep working hard to incorporate feedback. I think at tournaments are one of the best ways to learn. I mean, as a coach, you think that you've got all these skills that you can provide. But really, tournaments provide the best dynamic learning environment for new fencers. So get out there and don't be afraid. Have a good time.
[00:07:13] BW: Yeah, right. You got to fence against the best and really test yourself to see how far you've come and what you need to work on some more, I would imagine.
[00:07:21] TF: Absolutely.
[00:07:23] BW: So getting them in the door seems like, in some ways – I know it's still difficult to do this because there's so many different activities that parents can get their kids into and that kids themselves can get involved in. But there's definitely some appeal to fencing, and you see why people would come into the door, right? Just your own story of being able to play with swords and get to live in that world. But what keeps them coming back when there is such a steep learning curve?
[00:07:50] TF: Yeah. I think there's really two things I've focused in on as a coach. These are broad, but I think that you can incorporate them in conditioning, in drills, in lessons. Those things are obvious, I think, for fencing coaches. But being competitive, so creating some sort of environment where you can create a competition, both individually and in teams, and then making it fun. You can just kind of grind people down, just making it serious, and making it super technical and not enjoyable. So I think that if you really focus on instilling and drawing out that competitive desire that most athletes will have and then making it fun for maybe some of the people that are not only just naturally competitive but maybe trying to become that way. If you balance those two well, I think that really brings people back because people like to win. There’s nobody that doesn’t like to win. So having competitions and then having some fun with it. If you're not having fun, it's probably time to move on to something else.
[00:08:51] BW: Yeah. That's great advice. So speaking of winning, if you are winning enough and if you're successful enough, then like yourself, you're going to make it to the national level and compete at some of these national tournaments and then even international tournaments, right? So what does it take to make that next step? I'm talking at all levels, right? Cadet, junior, and then ultimately the senior team and maybe even the Olympic team, right? Well, what does it take to get to that next level, in your estimation?
[00:09:18] TF: I think there's value at an early age. The timing when you switch is really up to each person. It's hard to determine when that time is. But at some point, you really have to be dedicated and focused on fencing and fencing alone. Even in fencing, you have to focus what you're going to do. There's a lot of people, myself included, that do two weapons. Foil and epee, typically, are examples of that. I remember when I was a freshman in high school, I really wanted to make the US National Team in foil, and I made it in epee instead. I didn't make it into foil, and I was like, “Well, maybe it's time to focus solely on epee now. So I did that.
Kind of the answer to your question is it's focus and focus not only in practice and in discipline, but focusing just all your efforts into a single discipline, and realizing that there's going to be trials and difficulties that are going to come as a result of that. But in the end, it's going to be worth it. If you're willing to put in the time, the effort, make the sacrifices, there's nothing quite like winning or being successful at the higher levels.
[00:10:22] BW: Yeah, seriously. Part of being an athlete in any sport is being able to absorb losses but also not get to overcome by those victories either, right? So thinking back on your own fencing career and then now as a coach, how do you keep that level head when you've got the medal around your neck or when you look and you say, “Okay, I’m 74th place at this tournament.”? How do you keep that balance?
[00:10:53] TF: It's really focusing on the next thing that's up, and you can break that down into the next touch. If you're in that environment, and you're about it, it's super competitive, and it's tied, it’s close, or you're way behind or even way ahead, focus on the next touch. Don't worry about what happened the last time. If you're in a pool event, focus on the next bout. Focus on one thing at a time and forget what's just happened, good or bad. It takes a lot of experience and discipline. I think some of my coaches that helped me become really good, they were instrumental in helping me understand and learn that. So that's something that comes with time and maturity that coaches can help accelerate that process by reminding them just to take it one step at a time.
[00:11:37] BW: Yeah. It seems like, like you said, you can take that all the way down to the individual bout level, right? Because there's going to be times when you're down five to zero, and you would want to just like try to, in football, throw a Hail Mary, and make up all those touches back instantly. But you just can't do that. So does that even apply at the individual bout level as well, that same mindset like don't get too caught up in the big picture, so to speak?
[00:12:05] TF: Yeah, absolutely. Because, I mean, a direct elimination bout or tableau is a perfect example. You can't worry who you're fencing next. You have to focus on the first bout. You have to win that bout and then focus on the next bout. So you got to break it down just one step at a time. I remember doing that in bouts, where I'd either be ahead or even behind and not giving up, just making sure that I was focused on doing the very best for each touch, one touch at a time.
[00:12:33] BW: So one thing that really interests me about coaching is that there's all the coaching that you do at the club to get them ready for the tournament. Then there's the strip coaching that happens at the event. I'm a basketball fan, and I'm always like whenever they have a timeout, and they're drawing up this play, like how much are they really doing in those 30 seconds? The equivalent in fencing is there's one minute between rounds, between periods. Can you really do much as a coach in that time? If so, like what are you telling them? What message are you trying to convey to your athlete?
[00:13:04] TF: Actually, I’ll back up and break it down like on a tournament day. I think there's three phases as a coach I've had an experience with. Looking back, seeing how some of my effective coaches worked, pre-tournament, there's this phrase. It's not applied to fencing at all, but it’s called the hay is in the barn, meaning you've done all the practice. It's all in there. Now, it’s time to go out and execute. So there's no time to get better or get worse. You need to be confident in all the hard work that you've put in. Hopefully, you go out there and execute and have a good time. So getting fencers past those pre-tournament jitters.
Then I would say during – This is fun. I learned this a lot as a coach. Most of it is you're being a field psychologist during the tournaments because people get nervous. You're out there on a strip by yourself. You're fencing somebody. You're stabbing somebody. So you're trying to deal with nerves and understand what's happening. But during like a 15-touch bout, when you have a break, depending if they’re ahead or behind, I always like to kind of gauge what's happening inside their head because it's such a mental sport. So it's kind of like, “Hey, you know what to do right?” Or like, “How's it working out there?” Kind of drawing out with them what they think is working.
That question really is enlightening to figure out where their head is at, if they figured out what they need to do before just coming out there and like saying, “Hey, these are the three things you need to do.” It’s only a minute. So I try to focus on one or two things. So understanding where they're at. Do they understand where they need to be in the bout and what they need to do technically? If not, saying, “Hey, this is what's going on. This is an action that you can do to help win or to help get the next touch.”
So you can definitely figure out they don't have a clue of what's going on or what they need to do. Or they know what's going on, and they just can't think in the moment of how they need to adjust. So I've been through that multiple times as a fencer and as coach, just really kind of understanding where their heads at and then giving just one or two quick pieces of technical advice to help them as they're in the middle of a bout.
[00:15:09] BW: Yeah. Keeping it simple and kind of asking those leading questions because it sounds like there are some times when the athlete themselves knows what they need to do, and maybe just saying it alone out loud is going to turn that bout around, let's say, if they're trailing.
[00:15:25] TF: Yeah. Sometimes, there's a there's a skill set they have that they're predisposed to maybe get a counter attacking, for instance, and you just have to re-instill the confidence like, “Hey, you know how to do this. You're very good at this. Just go out and execute. Look for the timing. You know what to do.”
[00:15:42] BW: Yeah. So as a coach, what's it like when you feel like you really nailed it, and you're like, “Okay, I said the perfect thing because now they went out, and they won. I would be celebrating and patting myself on the back.” What does that feeling like?
[00:15:57] TF: I mean, it's great because you can go either way. But it's great. I think it's more rewarding when you see how the students can or the fencers can figure out it by themselves, and they know what to do. Yeah. So it's really rewarding to see their own success. Sometimes, I think there's very few instances where the fencers really like have no clue of what they're supposed to be doing next. It's more about getting the right frame of mind where they can execute.
I wasn't a coach at this point, but I remember we were in a dual meet at Duke. I was a freshman, and there was a senior on the team. He's a foil fencer. He's a walk on. We were literally tied with Duke. It was Duke, I think, or North Carolina, one of the two teams. We’re tied, and we had one bout left, and he had to win for us to beat Duke. He was nervous, and I said, “Hey, you remember how you fenced well in practice the other day? You did X, Y, and Z.” He's like, “Yeah.” I said, “Well, just go do that.” He was like – He won, the total story is he won the bout. But he came to me later. He said, “That was so helpful, what you told me, like just to do this. Remember how I did in practice.” So, yeah, a lot of, like I said earlier, is just field psychology.
[00:17:04] BW: So you had coaching kind of already in your blood before you even knew it, right?
[00:17:09] TF: Yeah, a little bit.
[00:17:11] BW: So what kind of motivated you to get into coaching and to make that switch to the other side of the sport?
[00:17:18] TF: I'm just really passionate about fencing. I think that there's just some great lifelong lessons that you can have instilled in you from an early age that can come from fencing. That can happen from any sport but fencing in particular, and just the own positive experience that I had with it, the friends that I made across the country, the ability to see new places, all the hard work. It was just so valuable to me, and I'm so grateful for the opportunity and the experience that I had, that I just want to be able to try to pass that on to others.
[00:17:48] BW: That's awesome. For a lot of fencers, there is an added motivation of not just getting competitive and getting trophies and medals and winning but also a chance to continue fencing in college, right? So I'm curious what your advice is for someone who maybe is looking several steps ahead and saying, “Hey. If this works out, then college might be paid for,” right? There's definitely some appeal to that. There's also probably some risks and thinking about that as a 12-year-old, right? So how do you keep that balance and keep people's expectations realistic, while saying, “Yeah, there is a proven track record of successful fencers getting their full ride to college or at least a scholarship to college.”?
[00:18:35] TF: I think that that's a good conversation to have with the fencer and with the parents as well. There can be some dynamics there that are happening. I think that, like I mentioned already, a good coach will make it competitive and fun. I know, of course, I said that, so I’m framing myself as a good coach. But I think just looking back on my experiences, those were the two things that were really valuable to me and kept it engaging for me. I think that when it comes to setting expectations, it's great to have goals like that. It helps keep you ambitious, especially when you see that in somebody as young as 12.
But continuing to invest in them and making it fun, focusing on one thing at a time, the next tournament, the next practice, that they're enjoying it, that's what's really going to drive the desire in the fire long term to be able to be successful to the next level. So I think that those are great goals for kids to have, but keeping it fun and making sure that the competitive desire still there is really important.
[00:19:33] BW: Yeah. Finding that balance. That makes total sense. There's also some balance between what goes on at the club and what happens at the home, right? So do you have advice on how fencers can kind of continue to improve their game when they're not at the club, when they're at home? Like do you have a routine that you suggest or anything like that that they can continue to work on?
[00:19:54] TF: Yeah. I think there's all sorts of – I mentioned the value of playing other sports early on, and I think that there is a value in doing other athletic activities that can help balance fencing. Sometimes, when you get into competitive level, it's not that the fun is out of it. It's fun to be competitive and fun to win. But it's nice to have sort of a kind of a release valve somewhere else like running, lifting weights, whatever. Something like that that you can enjoy that helps benefit fencing but sort of a release valve in some ways.
Then also, I'm sure all of us as fencers have done the tennis ball routine, where you hang it from a raft or something, and you just practice your point control, hitting that tennis ball from different distances. That's always a great value-add that fencers can add if they're not doing it already. So I think those are a few key things that fencers can take if they're not doing this already.
[00:20:43] BW: That's awesome. Finally, I like to ask everybody in fencing the same question because I think it's really fascinating. So what is it about fencing that keeps you coming back?
[00:20:54] TF: I think it's things that I have already alluded to. I think it's just a fun sport. I mean, there's something just fun about competing individually, about learning, about finely tuning your game, and adjusting to get better. There's that draw and the element of sword fighting that you think when you're young age. That's still pretty cool. But I think now, as an ex career at fencing and been more experienced and more coaching, I think that what draws me back now is just being able to pass on, sort of give back in any way I can to kids and parents that I've benefited from throughout my fencing career. So giving back is really rewarding.
[00:21:30] BW: Well said. We’ll leave it at that. Thank you so much to Tim French of the Round Rock Fencing Club. I really appreciate your insight, and best of luck to you and your athletes all year long.
[00:21:41] TF: Thanks, Bryan. Appreciate it.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:21:43] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you liked this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the Strip. Bye.
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