We're joined by Tierna Oxenreider, an epee fencer from Columbus, Ohio, who has dedicated 12 years to mastering the art of fencing. She not only represents the prestigious Columbia University and the New York Athletic Club but also recently added a silver medal to her collection from the 2023 Junior and Cadet Worlds in Bulgaria.
Today’s guest is as sharp on the strip as she is in the classroom. At just 19, she has already left her mark on the fencing world and shows no signs of stopping.
We're joined by Tierna Oxenreider, an epee fencer from Columbus, Ohio, who has dedicated 12 years to mastering the art of fencing. She not only represents the prestigious Columbia University and the New York Athletic Club but also recently added a silver medal to her collection from the 2023 Junior and Cadet Worlds in Bulgaria.
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First to 15: The Official Podcast of USA Fencing
Host: Bryan Wendell
Cover art: Manna Creations
Theme music: Brian Sanyshyn
EPISODE 38
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:02] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. I'm your host Bryan Wendell. In this show, you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting, and insanely talented people in this sport we all love. First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community, and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. Whether you're an Olympian, or Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you. With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:40] BW: All right, today's guest is a sharp on the strip as she is in the classroom at just 19, she's already left her mark on the fencing world and shows no sign of stopping. We're joined by Tierna Oxenreider, who's an epee fencer from Columbus, Ohio, who has dedicated 12 years to mastering fencing. She not only represents Columbia University and the New York Athletic Club, but also recently, added a silver medal to her collection at the 2023 Junior and Cadet World in Bulgaria. I was there to see that. That was awesome. Welcome, Tierna, to the podcast.
[0:01:09] TO: Thanks so much for having me.
[0:01:12] BW: We got to start just at the beginning, I guess, right? We said, you've been fencing for 12 years. How did you first get started and what made you drawn to the sport?
[0:01:20] TO: Yeah. I actually originally started when I was around four-years-old. I was really young. My older sibling was competing in kung fu and they started using swords. When I saw it, I just wanted to use swords. I didn't want to do anything with kung fu. My dad had seen it at a convention center, because they were holding it at Columbus, like a Mac, or something like that. Yeah, and he saw it and I started. Shortly after, I felt the uniform was too warm and I was sweating a lot and a little four-year-old me was not accustomed to that. I quit shortly after.
Something kept drawing me back to it. Over the next three years, I kept talking to my mom and my dad and saying like, “I want to go back. I want to go back.” Then when I was seven, I actually asked them like, I want to go back now. I went back and –
[0:02:06] BW: Put the uniform back on.
[0:02:07] TO: I put the uniform back on, and at that point in time, I was comfortable with the sweat and the uncomfortable heat. Then just the adrenaline and the happiness that I got from the sport just kept me with it for the next year. Yeah, once I started back up at seven, I never stopped.
[0:02:24] BW: When you think back on seven-year-old you fencing and just enjoying the just the spirit of it, how do you make sure that as the pressure gets greater and greater, that you still keep that youthful energy that first drew you to the sport? Because I could imagine that as the stress gets higher, it's tough.
[0:02:44] TO: Yeah. It's definitely difficult. I mean, we all have these really specific goals for ourselves now. When we were really young, we didn't have as specific of goals. We were just focused on fencing and having fun. I think, I still have such a love for the sport and I still love competing every single time. I'll go back and watch videos of myself fencing when I was seven. I think that brings back some of that youthfulness for me, because I just get to see how free I was when I was seven and how – just how much fun I was having with it. I think about that quite a lot and just take that with me here now. Every tournament I take it is just another fun experience for me.
[0:03:21] BW: That's cool. I like that outlook. You fenced throughout high school and then you went to college. I'm always fascinated by the recruiting process and how someone chooses where to take their fencing talents, right? What was that like for you? Let's go all the way back to how many schools were on the table? You don't have to name them, but just how many and how did you decide to end up at Columbia?
[0:03:44] TO: Yeah. Recruiting was actually really difficult for me, because my year was during COVID. All of our calls were on Zoom. They didn't really get the opportunity to see us fence. The problem was a year before COVID, I had an injury that took me out for a year. A lot of the colleges, they saw my results and didn't get to see anything for two or three years before, which was really difficult. Something that clicked with me with Columbia and with Michael was he had been watching my fencing for a while. He as a coach knew about my injury and was keeping tabs on it. He recognized, like, “I know this doesn't reflect probably where you should be as a fencer right now.”
[0:04:22] BW: That's good to hear, right?
[0:04:23] TO: Yeah. It was incredible. That was something I hadn't really heard. I talked to six or seven other coaches and I loved a bunch of other programs, but nothing clicked with me as he did and he knew my history really well and we built that connection. It was also when we came back to that COVID mini-season, where we had the four NACs in three months, which was really intense. I think that put a lot of pressure on us as we were recruiting, because that was our chance to prove ourselves to the coaches as well. Since they hadn't gotten to see results previously, they got that chance to reflect on our fencing.
Michael, again, was also very open about like, this doesn't determine how you are, because we know this is super stressful for you. Just, his openness with that and also everything about the college and the community just really drew me to Columbia. Eventually, once he gave me a spot, I took it and yeah, I'm so excited and was so happy.
[0:05:17] BW: Yeah. that's the head coach, for people who don't know, that's the head coach of Columbia, Michael Aufrichtig. I see him at these NACs and he's just everywhere. He's obviously a very skilled and active recruiter. I'm wondering, looking at the other side of it, when you're there and you see – do you notice someone there, you see the Columbia vest and you're like, “Okay. Well, this is the moment. I got to show up here.” Or are you able to block all that out?
[0:05:42] TO: Yeah. I mean, you see the vest and I mean, Michael, he wears pretty much the same outfit and you can tell by his walk that it's him as well. When I was recruiting, it's really stressful, because Columbia was also my top choice going into recruiting. I would see him and I would get a little bit scared, because he's watching me fence and that's how he's telling. Once I got on that strip and once I started fencing, I've developed this tunnel vision in my fencing to just focus on me and the fencer in front of me. Then if there's any coaching, coaching as well. I think I was able to block that out pretty well going through it. I think that also helped me to not get in my head too much.
[0:06:22] TO: That's good. Thinking about that recruiting process and now that you're a sophomore, or two years into college, do you look back and say, there's anything you would have done differently, or you wish you had known about the process, specifically thinking of some listeners who might be where you were three years ago?
[0:06:40] TO: Yeah. I think, I stressed myself out a lot and a little bit too much. But I was able to get enough information about the colleges and spend enough time to think about it. I think one thing that I had this feeling about was that I need to make a decision now.
[0:06:57] BW: Okay.
[0:06:58] TO: Because the first college I emailed, I emailed them right when I was able to and they responded back and they said, “Our slots are all full.” That immediately got into my head and I was like, “Oh, my goodness. Nobody's going to have a spot open.” I scrambled and then started emailing and emailing. Then I felt like, everything had to be done at that moment now. I think it's good to recognize that it's okay to take your time with it as well.
Some colleges have timelines, but they're also open to spread that out and elongated a little bit more if you need it. Yeah. I mean, especially for Michael, he was willing to take as much time as I needed to make a decision and that's really helpful. I think it's just useful to take all your time, because it's a really big decision and you need to make sure you have all of the facts and all the information before you make that decision. It's okay to take your time and feel out every single college that you think is a viable option.
[0:07:54] BW: That makes sense. Throughout all this, we've been talking about the fencing side, but you could be the best fencer in the world, but let your academic slip, and then Columbia is going to say, “Sorry, we can't accept you.” When you were in high school, how did you find the balance there that you needed to make sure everything was up to par?
[0:08:11] TO: Yeah. My high school was actually really accommodating to my fencing, which was really nice. They were very open about me traveling and competing. I think that was really helpful. I think time management was something that I had to learn from a really young age. I was actually homeschooled up until middle school. I think, time management also came with homeschooling, because I built my own schedule. Something I learned and recognized in high school and in middle school was get as much work as you can throughout the school day.
I would have blocks in my schedule where I didn't have anything. If there's a period in your school where you either have a free period, or they're giving you light work, then just start to do work for other classes and things like that. Because I would also recognize that sleep is really, really important. A lot of the times it's us athletes.
[0:08:59] BW: I’ve heard this.
[0:09:00] TO: Yeah. As athletes, we tend to put so many things in our day that when night comes, that's when we do our work. Then that takes away from sleep. That's also really important for training and all that stuff. Being able to fit that stuff in your school day and then gives more time to also relax and have fun at the end of the day as well, so you're not completely overworking yourself.
[0:09:23] BW: Yeah. Hopefully, there's time to turn everything off like that, and you've built that in as well. Almost scheduled that if you have to. Speaking of time to just have fun, the Columbia fencing team, it seems like a fun community. We were talking before we started recording that you guys went to the Air Force Invitational and got to check out the Garden of the Gods, do a little sightseeing. What is the culture like there? What's that community like at Columbia in the collegiate fencing scene?
[0:09:47] TO: Yeah. Columbia fencing has been a family to me for sure. We have a really big team. We have 48 this year. Looking at some of the other programs, it's really big and that can be daunting as well. I know that I can walk up to any single member of my team and ask if they want to go study, or ask if they want to go grab something to eat. I know they'll say, yes. Everybody is super open and welcoming.
Coming from Ohio, where there's not a super large fencing community, I was excited for that, but also, a little nervous, because I didn't know how I would fit in. The moment that I got there, I felt so welcomed, and so accepted into the community and also, by all the alumni. We have this alumni meet at the beginning of the year, where the alumni get to come and network with us and talk with us. That was really special for me as well, because you recognize this team, it doesn't end once you're done with college. You still are a part of Columbia fencing even if you've graduated from Columbia fencing.
I mean, we at competitions we’re all always there to support each other. I mean, right before this, I went to go cheer on some of my teammates and we're all always there for each other and college competitions, we’re the loudest in the room. In my opinion, somebody would argue with that, but I always think we're the loudest in the room and we're all there to support each other. I just couldn't have asked for a better group of people to go to college with it. It's incredible. I love it so much.
[0:11:06] BW: Yeah. Then once you get on the strip, that shows, too, right, that there's that tight-knit group. I watched you fence in teams in Bulgaria and I saw that that was a tight-knit group. But also, you're four women coming from different places, right? You come together and fence incredibly. But you're not traveling together all the time and going sightseeing together necessarily, right? How was the culture different at the NCAA team event level, versus a junior team?
[0:11:34] TO: I think it's very different, especially because in individual team, you're a team for that short period of time, but you're also competitors.
[0:11:43] BW: True.
[0:11:43] TO: It’s like, the four of us, especially last year, we're all fencing each other all the time, but not as teammates, as individuals vying for these competitions. I fenced them all so many times last season. I think there's something also really special of them just being able to put that to the side and just being present as a team. That was something that I was a little nervous about, just going into being competitors to then being teammates is how is that dynamic going to change?
Everyone immediately recognizes like, we're all here for the same goal now. It's like, we're all here to continue as a team and that was really special and really fun to also participate in. Then collegiate fencing, it's like, you have this larger group of people who are then all working towards the same goal. It's similar, but on a larger scale. You have your individual squad. My woman's epee squad at Columbia is incredible. I love competing with them every single time, because they always bring the energy and they all know my fencing. We train with each other so much that we're all coaches for each other, too, because you spend so much time fencing each other that you get to analyze each other.
I think that's also really special and really helpful when you go into those team events, because you have a full understanding of each other's fencing and can help a lot when going up against somebody that you may not be comfortable with.
[0:13:01] BW: The format of the NCAA team competition is super interesting to me. It occurs to me that the pressure almost seems like, it would be greater, because now some of your closest friends are the ones counting on you to deliver. How do you cope with that?
[0:13:18] TO: Yeah, it's pretty stressful and especially as a freshman last year, I was really nervous going in, because I felt like, I had to also prove myself. I had a lot of imposter syndrome going into college and I'm sure a lot of people do. I felt like I had to prove myself. I think just recognizing the team is there for me and is ready for me to no matter what happens. I had to realize that it's okay if I drop a couple of bouts, or it's okay if I'm not fencing on my best today, because then they're also there to step in if you need it. That's also really good about having a big team, because you have a ton of people there that can have your back.
It's definitely a very stressful experience going into that. Because when you're fencing at individual fencing and not collegiate fencing, sometimes you think about it as if you lose, you're only letting down yourself. Then when you're at a team level and a team competition you have your entire team behind you, and you want to do your best. Last year at Ivy Championships, we went up against Princeton and they beat us. I was fencing the last bout that actually determined that they won and that was really stressful and uncomfortable for me, because I ended up losing the bout.
Then part of you thinks, “Oh, is this my fault? Did I cause our team to lose?” Then I turned around to see my entire team coming up to hug me and they’re like, “You did the absolute best you could and we're so proud of you.” No matter what, even though there's so much stress much anxiety surrounding it, just knowing that they don't care. As long as you put your best foot out there when you fence and try your hardest, nobody's going to care how you do.
[0:14:58] BW: That's awesome. Now, can you take that mentality back to your individual fencing and you'll be out there tomorrow and if you maybe drop a pool bout or something, building yourself up in that way. Not that we're going to expect you to drop any pool bout. I'm not saying that, but let's just say hypothetically.
[0:15:15] TO: Right. Yeah. I definitely think that my mentality has gotten so much better since going to collegiate fencing. That’s something that’s improved a lot, I think, because of that support system that I now have. I just keep all their voices in the back of my head, especially the coaching staff there and everybody else. I recognize that one bout doesn't mean the end, or something.
When I was younger, I had this mentality that I had to win everything. When I was in Y12, I was also going at a tournament seat at first and then I felt that meant I had to leave getting first every single time. I think that's such an unrealistic expectation, especially in epee, which is such a – you're not always going to get first. You're going to run into somebody that might have had a hard day as well. I think recognizing that and understanding that was really helpful and I think part of that came from collegiate fencing, where you're going to lose a lot of bouts, because we fence a ton of bouts throughout the season. I fenced, I think 45, 5 touch bouts last season.
[0:16:14] BW: That’s wild.
[0:16:15] TO: You're not going to win all of those bouts. I mean, if you do, that's incredible. But it's more likely than not that you're going to lose some of those bouts. I think, also getting that opportunity to have some losses and have some what people may consider failures, or something. Sometimes those can be really helpful and really useful to then take back to your individual fencing to recognize it's okay if you drop a bout. It's okay if it doesn't work out this time. There's a long season ahead. This is only the second act of the season, so there's a long way to go.
[0:16:45] BW: Speaking of that season, how do you create your own competitive calendar? Because there's only 52 weeks in a year, right? I know from talking with you and other fencers that there's going to be some conflicts there where you're not going to be able to be at every tournament you want to be at. Or you might fly from one tournament to the next and have to compete twice in three days, or back-to-back days. How do you find that balance and structure your competitive schedule in a way that makes sense for where you want to take your career?
[0:17:15] TO: Yeah. This was super hard for me, especially coming from high school where I'd only ever done two international tournaments before. I was competitive, but I hadn't even taken into account what NCAA fencing would be like. Now that I've gone into college and I had that first year to figure things out, I actually sat down with my mom before school even started. The moment that international calendar went out, the national calendar went out, NCAA season went out, we sat down and we pulled up all three of those and we pulled up my calendar and we put in every single tournament that I even would consider going to.
Then you get to see where that overlap is, or where you might have six tournaments in a row and you may need to recognize, okay, this might be too much. That's where prioritization comes from. I recognized what my goals are for the season and what do I need to prioritize and since it's my last junior year, I looked at it like, okay this is my time to focus on junior. I have so many senior years ahead of me. It's more important for me to prioritize those events. Looking at it, then I recognize like, okay, I don't have to go to all these senior world cups. I can take some of those away and prioritize the junior events.
It's fine not to go to everything. I think that was something that last year I overworked myself, because I wanted to go to every single possible tournament that I could, and that actually resulted in injury. I had to recognize that it's better to pick the events that you think are going to be the best for your fencing and your goals. If that means you're not going to as many as you think you should, maybe that's better for you and maybe that's also better for your health.
[0:18:49] BW: Are you thinking about points, too? Because it seems like, you could drive yourself crazy doing this, but also, it might be necessary to say like, “I need to go to this many events and finish in these positions to achieve my goal of making the junior world team,” for example. Are you making those calculations, or am I overthinking this?
[0:19:09] TO: No, you're absolutely correct. That's always something that's on our minds and mine absolutely, I always think about that. It's also really hard, because you look at your last season and results and like, we're going back to Germany this year. Last year, I got a silver medal there. It's always like, okay, if I want to get the same amount of points, I have to do that again.
[0:19:27] BW: Oh, yeah.
[0:19:28] TO: Then you're always thinking of last year, and I got a silver medal and that got me to worlds. That kickstarted to worlds. Then you're like, “Okay, do I need to do this again?” But then, you also have to take into account how is everybody else going to do, right? Because if other people don't do as well, then you can maybe do a little bit less and still make it.
[0:19:45] BW: This is what I'm saying. You can drive yourself crazy.
[0:19:48] TO: No, it's intense It's super hard, but I think I recognized after last year where I did drive myself crazy. We went into that last international event before the season concluded and I didn't fence well. I was so stressed about making world team, and I had so much anxiety running my brain about I need this many points to make it over this other person. I need this many points to keep where I am. I drove myself insane and I almost didn't make it because of that.
I needed to get into the 32 and I lost to get into the 32 by one point. Yeah, it's really, really stressful. But I think once you recognize that that's not helpful at all, then you fence better as well. Because if you're just fencing by thinking of the numbers and thinking of I need this many points, I need this, I need this, you're not going to fence how you should, or how you want to and then that's inevitably going to end with you not getting the results that you want as well. I think, once I started fencing more free and just accepting the season will go how the season will go and I'm just going to go out and do the best that I can, it also makes your fencing so much better.
[0:20:56] BW: Yeah. I mean, part of me wants to go back to that seven-year-old teary nose. What if you had told her about the point calculations that you'd be doing in 12 years? That's not why you get into it. But obviously, it's part of it, right? I totally get both sides. You mentioned injury prevention. This is just a practical question to people who are listening and they want to fence at your level, but also don't want to injure themselves and place an obstacle in their path. How do you keep on your feet?
[0:21:29] TO: Yeah. This is something I've struggled with throughout the years, because in 2018, I had a back injury that took me out for a whole year. I was gone for a whole season. Then last year, I overworked myself so much and I sustained a stress response on my left tibia right before world selection came out. I've had my share of injuries over the years. But I think something I recognized was pinpointing where I need to work on in my training. I was focusing a lot on strength training and power movements and those can be really helpful for some people, but I don't think that they were helping my fencing and I think doing those movements were just causing a lot of pain for me.
I started talking to my sports medicine coaches and my sports performance coaches at Columbia, and we recognized that maybe I need to work more on flexibility and mobility, because I do a lot of movements and especially with my back, I do a lot of overarching movements, going forward and backwards on my back that can cause a lot of stress. But if you focus on improving the mobility of your back and improving the mobility of other parts, because would be lunge, our hamstrings and our hips are getting stretched like crazy. If you're focusing on that, then that'll help to give you the best possible performance in your fencing, but also help to not sustain any injuries.
Then on the tournament side of things, I recognized especially last year when I was overworking myself so much that maybe going to everything and doing all that stuff wasn't the best thing for my body, and that was just going to lead to injury. Some of that, especially in NCAA fencing, I had to talk with Michael and talk with the coaches there and be like, “Maybe I shouldn't fence at this event.” Talk to them and be like, “Do you need me for this event? Is this something that I have to fence in for the team? Because I will a 100%. But I don't want to risk injuring myself and not being able to fence the important tournaments.” Like, our Ivy League championships, or regionals, or NCAA's, or anything like that.
Having that open communication, even if it's not in college fencing, just regular fencing. If you feel like you shouldn't go to a NAC, because it might mess up the rest of your season, make that decision, so then you can take that time to recover. Last year I pulled out of a junior NAC, because it was a week before our Spain World Cup. I was having pain in my shins and I recognized, okay, what's more important? This NAC right now, or the junior World Cup next week? I pulled out and then I got bronze in the junior World Cup. Maybe if I hadn't pulled out and I had gone and continued fencing, I wouldn't have done as well as I did. Making those decisions and prioritizing things.
Last week, I pulled out of the part of the Air Force competition because of my back and recognizing that I had this tournament this week. Yeah, just taking that time to fully prioritize what you need to do for your body is really important.
[0:24:12] BW: It sounds like, your coach, Michael, and the strength and conditioning people at Columbia support those decisions, too, which is super nice. You could probably envision a time, 30 or 40 years ago where they would say, “No, just get out there.” I think we're all smarter now about that maybe and not wanting to exacerbate those injuries. Big picture, is there some advice that you've gotten in your fencing career that you’d want to pass on to people who want to reach your level someday and see a path maybe to do so?
[0:24:47] TO: Yeah. The most memorable advice I've got is actually from my mom. It was from when I was really young, when I was seven, when I just started fencing. She told me two very important things. One was, have fun. She told me this before every single bout. She told me this before every single tournament. As we were talking about earlier, you can lose that feeling of fun when you're fencing, because you're focusing on the numbers, or you're focusing on ensuring that you're fencing well. I think the best fencing you do is when you're having fun and when you're loose and your fencing.
Something Michael has told me at Columbia is fence free. That has the same idea as fencing fun, because you're just fully letting yourself be and fence how you want to fence. I always keep having fun in the back of my mind, because I also recognize that I love to fence. I sometimes can forget that when I'm trying to go towards a goal, or something like that. You're so stressed that you forget that this is something that you love to do and this is something that you've chosen to do and you get the opportunity to do. Then just having that in the back of my mind is really helpful.
Another thing she also told me when I was really young is I would lose a tournament, or something and maybe it wasn't the result that I wanted and she would say, “Did you learn something from this?” I would say, yes. She would be like, “Then this was an amazing tournament.” I couldn't have asked for anything better than this. I think that is something that is really important and really special, because a good tournament doesn't have to be one that you win first place, or one that you get in the top eight, or top 16 of. A good tournament is something that you can take something away from it and learn to grow to be a better fencer. Because we all have these really long journeys in fencing and especially in epee, you're not going to win every one. It's going to be really difficult. There's so much inconsistency that comes with our weapon and our sport.
I think recognizing that, looking back at your fencing that day and looking back at, is there something that I can improve on, something that maybe this is why I didn't do as well in those bouts, or this is something mentally that affected me, and then taking that as something you can learn from and adapt to during practice is really important. That's something I take from every single tournament, even if I didn't get the result I wanted, I always just think, “Is there something that I learned from this?”
[0:27:00] BW: Do you have a process for internalizing that, like a journal, or your videos that you go back and watch? Or how do you turn that into something that you can take forward?
[0:27:11] TO: Yeah. At first, it goes into right after the tournament, I just think back on the day and think of, we all have these pictures in our mind of how our fencing went and we can actually think of those movements and think of our actions. You can visualize what you needed to work on. But a lot of them, what I do is in the next week, I watch those videos back. I look back at every single bout that I fenced and I determine what was the main big picture thing that I need to fix, or I need to work on? Not necessarily fix, but work on. Then take that and talk to coaches and do lessons, working on those things.
Also, if it's something with my blade, doing target work, or if it's something with my feet doing footwork. But all of that goes back to watching videos and not analyzing your own fencing. But then, if it's something that you recognize another fencer does really well, finding a video of them doing it and then trying to go off of their fencing. I think, especially if you're a newer fencer and you don't know exactly what's the correct way to do this, and then just watching other people fence, especially if what the thing that you want to improve on is you can find that in a lot of really high-level fencers and then take that back into your own fencing.
[0:28:24] BW: Yeah. Because it occurs to me that now you're experienced enough to watch a video and identify what you need to work on. But probably when you were younger and certainly, younger listeners maybe wouldn't be able to see that, and would need a coach to help them, or something like that. That's really interesting that you've evolved in that way and can recognize that.
Finally, let's talk about where you want to go next, some of your goals for the next few years and where you want to take this fencing journey.
[0:28:53] TO: Yeah. Next couple of years, I'm a sophomore right now at Columbia, so in two years I'll be graduated, which is really difficult to think about, because I love the team so much. But after that, I'll be done with my junior season and then done with NCAA collegiate season. All my focus will be on division one and senior events. My big picture goal is always looking at LA 28. That's the big goal for, I think, a lot of us. Anything that I can do with my fencing to help with that and my goal right now is to stay in New York and be able to continue training at the New York Athletic Club, and getting as much experience as I can and then going to NACS, going to world cups, doing whatever I can to hopefully reach that goal and make senior world teams and then hopefully, Olympic team in the future. Yeah, anything I can do to get there, that's what my plan will be.
[0:29:43] BW: I love it. Well, it's been fun to watch you so far and good luck tomorrow. Have fun, like your mom would say. Yeah, thanks for taking some time to chat.
[0:29:51] TO: Thank you so much.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:29:53] BW: Thanks for listening to First of 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. If you like this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating, or review. Until next time, I'm Bryasn Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
[END]