Supriya Nair is a junior at Stanford Online High School, a rare triple‑weapon fencer, and the creator of Neurofencing — a project that asks a simple question every athlete knows: Does a good warm‑up really make you faster? She started by wiring herself up with cheap sensors in her garage. Two years later, she’s collecting data at major hospitals and university labs, using high‑end gear to track hundreds of lunges and reaction times.
Supriya Nair is a junior at Stanford Online High School, a rare triple‑weapon fencer, and the creator of Neurofencing — a project that asks a simple question every athlete knows: Does a good warm‑up really make you faster? She started by wiring herself up with cheap sensors in her garage. Two years later, she’s collecting data at major hospitals and university labs, using high‑end gear to track hundreds of lunges and reaction times.
But Supriya’s curiosity doesn’t stop at the edge of the strip. Her newest study, done at Seattle Children’s Hospital, looks at how the tiniest blood vessels deep inside the brain differ from those near the surface—a finding she hopes to share at the big Neuroscience 2025 meeting. In this third conversation we’ll recap her journey in plain English, highlight what her latest numbers mean for fencers and coaches, and hear where her science‑meets‑sport adventure goes next.
[INTRO]
[0:00:01] BW: So, we are here live at Summer Nationals 2025 in Milwaukee, and I'm back with
Supriya Nair, who is a junior at Stanford Online High School, three-weapon fencer and the
creator of Neurofencing. She's been on the podcast a couple times before.
Neurofencing is a project that answers a simple question that every athlete has thought about at
least once, which is: does a good warm-up really make you faster and better at fencing, right?
So, you started by wiring yourself up with some cheap centers in your garage, and then two
years later, you're collecting data at major hospitals and university labs, and using much higher-
end gear to track lunges and reaction times in hundreds of different ways. And then your
curiosity doesn't even stop there, right? So, your newest study at Seattle Children's Hospital is
looking at the tiniest blood vessels deep in the brain, right? And how those differ from those
near the surface? You're going to be hopefully sharing those at the Neuroscience 2025 meeting,
right?
[INTERVIEW]
[0:01:00] BW: So, in our latest conversation here in this, what's becoming an annual tradition,
we're going to talk about where you've been, maybe you can simplify it for me in plain English,
so I understand. And then highlight what you've been up to lately. So, hey, Supriya, welcome
back on the podcast.
[0:01:15] SN: Yes, it's great that we're doing this annually.
[0:01:18] BW: Yes, it's becoming quite a tradition here. Just the location changes, and your
research has expanded, right? But I think it's helpful for those who are just learning about you,
just meeting you. What is Neurofencing, and what sparked this idea in the first place?
[0:01:37] SN: Yes, so Neurofencing is an area of research that brings together the sport of
fencing and neuroscience. I am a fencer myself, so naturally, I chose fencing to be the sport of
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interest, and I'm very passionate about neuroscience. I love it. It's my area of interest. The idea
for it came in 2021, which was kind of the peak of COVID time. So, all the fencing clubs were
shut down. Competitions were not really there. We were trying to recreate fencing training at
home. So, warm-up routines were kind of lost in that process. At least they were lost for me.
When I came back, I was very rusty and started slowly getting used to the competitive
environment again. And this made me wonder about, okay, since this time period, I haven't
really been warming up. So, what is really the effect of warming up on fencing? The coaches tell
you to warm up, when we do it all the time before a competition, but why do we do it? Besides
the fact that the coaches recommend us to do it, there isn't really any quantitative data behind it.
So, that was what I wanted to fill.
I started using backyard brains small adreno kits, which –
[0:02:57] BW: Something you could buy online, right?
[0:02:58] SN: Yes. Yes. And I attached electrodes to myself and I began working and looking at
activity in the muscles, heart, and the brain, electrical activity, which you can capture on any
digital device. So, I started looking at the effect of warming up prior to fencing. I would do about
10 lunges or so on a dummy target, five with warm up, and five without, and this would be on
separate days. And I saw that there was a performance improvement of about 18% or so.
[0:03:32] BW: So, something you could actually measure?
[0:03:34] SN: Yes.
[0:03:34] BW: What was improved? Like what measurables did you see?
[0:03:37] SN: So, we measured the time that it would take for you to start in an on-guard
position and finish a lunge. That time was what we were measuring, and the variable was
obviously whether we warmed up or not.
[0:03:51] BW: Yes.
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[0:03:51] SN: That was what we saw a decrease after we did the warm-up. However this, I had
only done it on myself, so it wasn't really a statistically significant sample. So, once I had shared
my findings in 2022 when we first spoke, I got the chance to replicate my experiments at the
Mount Sinai Abilities Research Lab, which was a great opportunity for me to do it with multiple
subjects and to use our quality equipment.
So, I think I spoke a lot about this in our 2023 conversation, but I used wireless EMG sensors to
measure muscle activity, so it was much easier for the fencer to move around versus the wires I
had been using previously. It was the first time I used an EEG cap to measure brain activity. So,
we had eight electrodes on the brain to measure brain activity. So, from there, we got similar
results, and that after warming up, the time that it took for the fencers to complete a lunge
decreased by about 10% or so. That was great in that it aligned with my first initial phase of the
research.
Then, towards the end of that New York experience, I had tried using human performance
models that are open source, like OpenPose, for example. And I tried estimating the positions of
joints on the body, and so you would feed these models of video, and then it would estimate
those positions for you. It wasn't very accurate, so I wanted to base my next phase off of that.
So, I wanted to find a more accurate way of representing where the joints were and focus more
on the joints. That's when I got another opportunity to work with Scott Telfer at the University of
Washington’s Core Lab. It was quite local for me, so it was pretty easy for me to commute to the
lab and back.
[0:05:55] BW: Right. You train out of Seattle, right?
[0:05:57] SN: Yes, I'm based out of Seattle. And the lab was equipped with the full-motion
capture system, so that was another opportunity for me to learn how to use motion capture. And
I was able to get a pretty large sample size, about 50 fencers from the Northwest came and
volunteered for our study, which I'm very grateful for. So, all the Northwest fencers that are
listening, I thank you very much for joining.
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[0:06:22] BW: Yes. So, you had better equipment and more fencers. What were you hoping to
find there when you were not only using force plates, but also filming them in 3D, right?
[0:06:34] SN: So, I was hoping to find exactly how much force people were applying on their
dominant foot whenever they would do a lunge or advanced lunge. I wanted to see if there was
any weapon-specific differences between the two of them. I found that sabre fencers tended to
produce the most ground reaction force relative to their body weight. So, we –
[0:07:01] BW: Kind of makes sense, right? When you think about the explosiveness of sabre.
[0:07:04] SN: Makes sense. We wanted to normalize everything to the person's body weight
because if you were to just look at a process chart that says, like the top force was about 1,600
newtons, it's very difficult for us to comprehend what 1,600 newtons is.
[0:07:23] BW: Yes. You could have just said 16,000 or –
[0:07:28] SN: Yes. We're not sure like how much force is that. When you say take a person who
might weigh, say, 130 pounds, then you could say it's like five times their body weight, which
could make more sense compared to, say, saying 1,600 newtons, five times your weight.
Seems like a more easier way to communicate what it is that we're talking about. So, that was
the main thing that we found was that there was differences between the amount of force
people were putting on the ground.
Notably, the sabre fencers tended to exert the most force and then no foil fencers, and then the
épée fencers. And then we also looked at the joint angle, which was where the filming in 3D
came in. So, we had about 60 markers, which are just small, non-battery-powered markers that
we stick on using double-sided tape. So, these allow us to –
[0:08:27] BW: We’ve seen that in motion capture movies, right? So, people probably have a
visual of some of these celebrities or stunt people wearing them. Okay, gotcha.
[0:08:37] SN: We don't have the camera in front of their face, but instead we used to have
about 60 of these on the body that we attach first, and they do about five lunges and five
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advanced lunges. So, during that time period, we get the force data from the force plates below
them, but we also get joint data from the markers that we attach. We can see as to say the
angle of which their joints are moving or how fast their joints are moving.
The main thing we've been looking at is joint angles. And what we've found so far is, I think, last
year, I also discussed this, but we specifically focused on knee angles last year. We found that
the knee starts at a flexed position and then extends for a period of time. That's quite obvious to
us because when we're doing a lunge, you kick your leg out and obviously your leg is going to
be extended, so therefore your knee is going to be extended too.
[0:09:43] BW: Right, that makes sense.
[0:09:44] SN: And then when you land, there is a period of bending your knee, which is obvious
to us when we're doing this lunge technique. So, that's the pattern that we saw in that, from
when the person lands their front foot after they've started their lunge, that there's a period of
flexion between the time that their dominant foot hits the ground and when they end the lunge.
So, that's mainly what we've been focusing on. And the important thing is, how do we prevent
injury from happening to the knee joint?
[0:10:19] BW: Yes, because there's a lot of force and the more Newtons, the more Newtons of
force that are going on that knee, that more likely there is to be an injury, right?
[0:10:30] SN: Yes.
[0:10:30] BW: There's a number of factors at play there, but the angle you're saying also plays
a part in that. Okay.
[0:10:37] SN: So, the coaches recommend that you keep your knee above your ankle, or
sometimes they use a shoelace as a marker. So, if it goes –
[0:10:45] BW: So, you're not extending the knee beyond that point when, okay, I got you.
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[0:10:50] SN: If it goes beyond your toe, for example, then that's a red flag for, and that could
be injury prone, and that could make the knee injury prone. But another way you can do it,
actually, over-flexing is if you basically lower your center of mass, so if you just fall down on the
strip, then your thigh tends to go, and your hip tends to go lower than your knee. But your knee
is still above your ankle. But your hip is –
[0:11:20] BW: So, you checked that box, but now you've created a different problem.
[0:11:22] SN: Yes. But now, you’ve created a different problem. So, it's not the knee joint itself
that is going to cause problems. It's the tendons around it. Because around the joint, there are
all these tendons and ligaments. Especially in the knee, you have the ACL, for example. So,
those are the ones that are managing the flexion and extension of these joints. So, the more
you strain them, the more these tendons are going to hurt, and potentially they could possibly
tear in some severe cases.
[0:11:55] BW: Yes. So, we talked a little bit about sabre, can you say if anything jumped out
with like foil and épée when you were looking at these kind of slow motion numbers and motion
capture data?
[0:12:08] SN: Yes. Foil was generally greater than épée in terms of force exerted on the ground.
But in terms of joint angles, the pattern was pretty similar. That is because the lunge, usually the
lunge technique, is the same, in that you start in the on-guard position, and then your leg
extends. And then as soon as you land the front foot, it flexes again so that your knee comes
right above your ankle and not above that.
So, regarding that, there wasn't much difference between across the three weapons. We saw a
similar pattern, but usually we're again emphasizing the same point that certain angles,
especially like the ones we spoke about, rolling your ankle inwards or over-flexing the knee.
These are hazardous regardless of what weapon you fence, especially the ankle rolling is
something we see across all three weapons. It's not just sabre or foil problem because people
want to score.
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The difficult part is noticing that you're actually doing these things and then starting to correct
them. To be honest, I have not successfully corrected them yet. I'm still working on applying my
own learnings to my fencing, and the ankle rolling is a pretty big problem for me. So, besides
tearing your shoes, it'll also create ankle problems in the future. To all the fencers listening,
please try and notice when you're rolling your ankles or when you're causing some strain on
your joints and try to avoid that as best you can.
[0:13:47] BW: Find another way to get that touch, maybe.
[0:13:49] SN: Yes.
[0:13:50] BW: When you're talking about this too, fencers and coaches and others, you're
speaking the same language, but you also have presented this at conferences in front of people
who don't know anything about fencing, right? So, how do you find yourself explaining the
sport? Because I assume you have to kind of give them a rundown on the sport itself before you
can even get into the research that you've done.
[0:14:12] SN: Yes, most people that I present to, especially at conferences, have not heard of
fencing.
[0:14:18] BW: Maybe they've seen it in a movie or something.
[0:14:20] SN: Yes, or in the Olympics. But generally, I have to explain that, okay, the sport is
fencing, we have three weapons, foil, épée, sabre, and briefly touch on the rules of each
weapon, and explain the position of, or what our on guard position is, and how we do a lunge.
Usually, I'll demonstrate it to them how the lunge is, that way they get that kind of idea as to
what the range of motion is. But I –
[0:14:48] BW: I love that visual of you like throwing a lunge in the middle of this, like this exhibit
hall or something.
[0:14:52] SN: Yes, in front of my poster with 50 other posters, I'm doing a lunge.
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[0:14:57] BW: I mean, it's like, “What is going on over there?” That's funny.
[0:15:01] SN: But it's been really fun, actually, presenting at these conferences because I've
gotten a lot of feedback from researchers who have done more specific work on joints. So,
that's been a great experience. Occasionally, I do run into people who have fenced before.
That's always a fun treat when you run into ex-fencers.
[0:15:25] BW: So, for your newest project, you're studying blood vessels in the brain. Can you
tell me about that? What drew you to that? And if you can put it in Bryan terms, in very simple
terms for me, so I can know exactly what you're researching.
[0:15:42] SN: Yes. So, this was actually a very interesting story because I was actually traveling
to the Neuroscience 2023 conference two years ago. Next to me on the plane was Dr. Andy
Shih, who is my current mentor for this project now. He was showing me a lot about the small
blood vessels that we have in the brain.
[0:16:03] BW: Wait, this is someone you didn't know before getting on that plane?
[0:16:05] SN: Yes, someone I didn't know before getting on the plane.
[0:16:07] BW: That is crazy. Okay, go ahead, sorry.
[0:16:09] SN: So, he showed me for the entire plane ride just how these blood vessels would
work, and then videos of these blood vessels, and I'm like, “This is so cool.” So, I ended up
getting a small mini-lecture from him about blood vessels. And that kind of like sparked my
interest because all this time, I had been working on applied research with the sport that I love,
fencing. I've done it for dancing, too, I've done it for martial arts as well. So, I wanted to kind of
move on from applied research and transition to more neuroscience-related research. That was
a fun opportunity for me that I saw. So, I took it, of course.
Right now, we're working on looking at the blood vessels in the brain. So, in the brain, you have
two different types of tissue in the brain. One is called gray matter. It's called gray because it's
usually gray when you image it. The other section is called white matter, again for the same
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reason. So, the difference between the two is that the white matter area is usually concentrated
deeper in the brain. If you were to cut open a brain, usually near the center of the brain is where
all the white matter structures are, and those tend to have very few blood vessels.
We're still researching as to why this is the case, but yet with fewer blood vessels, it's still able
to function. However, it is more vulnerable to disease. We are seeing that, especially in
Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, the first area to get damaged is the white matter area. We're trying
to figure out what is it about these blood vessels that is different from the surface-level blood
vessels. The blood vessels come from the top down. So, the surface area is filled with blood
vessels. But as you go deeper, the numbers start to decrease.
So, we are looking at the size of these blood vessels or the diameter because the blood vessels
are circular. And we're finding that the deeper ones tend to be larger than the surface ones. That
was interesting to us because there are fewer of them, and yet they're still bigger. So, we've
right now established significant differences between the surface and the deeper blood vessels.
But now the interpretation of this is what we're working on now.
[0:18:42] BW: Like, why does that matter? Interesting. I mean, is there a fencing link to what
you're studying, or has this, I mean, obviously, fencers are using their brains quite a bit out on
the strip.
[0:18:56] SN: It's probably separate from fencing because we're looking at it with mice, and
we're sectioning.
[0:19:03] BW: You're not getting the mice, little tiny foils.
[0:19:06] SN: No.
[0:19:08] BW: Okay. Well, I mean, if you ever do that, please send me a photo.
[0:19:11] SN: That would be cool though. That would be really cool.
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[0:19:12] BW: So, this is a separate interest and obviously, like all the fencers out there, you
have multiple interests both involving fencing and not. The thing that I think is great about your
research is how you present it in a way that's really interesting and you also probably have to
find yourself modifying the way you speak when you're to like a scientist or someone who's like
a biomechanics nerd, I guess you could say, or a fencing crowd. So, how do you keep the
groups engaged and interested? How do you make this topic so accessible, because you have
a really good talent for that.
[0:19:51] SN: I wouldn't call it a talent, but when I'm speaking to fencers, I try to avoid
technicality because that isn't as engaging. So, I try to make it focused on what they can take
away from what I'm presenting to them. Mainly focusing on injury prevention and what you can
do to fix these joint problems and keep your body healthy in that way –
[0:20:17] BW: Takeaways that they can use right away.
[0:20:21] SN: That way, it's been easier to get them to understand what it is that I'm speaking to
them about. For biomechanists, we often go into a discussion about the graphs that I've put on
my poster, for example, or the specifics of the joint angles, so that there's more technicality
involved with that. For the neuroscientists, we end up going sometimes down a discussion of
whether I've used muscle activity, or obviously, all of these are more technical.
So, I think it's harder for me to speak to fencers rather than to scientists because when you go
to a conference, everything is laid out on your poster. We can start talking about a specific chart
and going down into the weeds. But when you're given one-hour slot on a Summer Nationals
time, then you need to keep it pointed. You need to explain some of the detail, but not so much
that it gets overwhelming for people. So, that's been a challenge.
[0:21:31] BW: Well, I'm looking at some of your posters here in the room at Summer Nationals
and the level of detail. It's like there's no way you could go through all that in an hour, even just
if we were talking about one of the posters and you've got multiple there. It's not just fencing,
either. You also are doing like I see one poster is about dance and so can you tell me about that
because we haven't really discussed that, although you've been keeping me updated on that
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new area of study. But what exactly is that, and are you using some of the same things you
learned in the fencing research?
[0:22:06] SN: Yes. So, I am a dancer too, which is why I did this.
[0:22:12] BW: Yes. Use your interest, right? Study what you know. Yes, I love that.
[0:22:15] SN: So, this project started in about 2024. I had used the Delsys EMG or muscle
activity system I had used for the fencing study at the Mount Sinai Center. I had wanted to do a
dance project for a while now, since I had started using that system. So, I was very fortunate
that the company gave me one on loan for a period of four or five months. During that time, I
was able to formulate a study related to dance. It's different from fencing in that the style of
dance which is a South Indian classical dance. It's very slow and very fluid. So, unlike fencing,
which has periods of high-speed intensity and then slow down –
[0:23:06] BW: Right. Explosiveness, we were talking about.
[0:23:08] SN: Yes. It's very constant. So, mainly, what the dancers are looking for is how
graceful they're moving on stage because you don't want any abrupt movements or any jerky
sort of expressions. You want it to be very fluid, and that's what people are looking for on the
stage, and that's what your teacher is looking for too. So, we started looking at their acceleration
primarily, and if the acceleration was closer to zero, then that meant that they were moving
constantly. So, acceleration is your change in velocity. If the change is zero, then you're moving
at a constant speed.
[0:23:48] BW: If you're going down the highway, 60 miles an hour cruise control, then you're at
zero acceleration while you're doing that.
[0:23:55] SN: But if you go from 60 miles an hour to 80 miles an hour, then there's a change in
speed. So, the goal was to keep it as low as possible.
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[0:24:04] BW: You actually found a way to quantify dance, which is this artistic thing that most
people would think, there's no numbers associated with it, but you were like, actually, there
could be, and it would tell us something.
[0:24:16] SN: Yes. We’re trying to make it a training tool for dancers. But right now, it’s like we
have to put on the EMG sensors and then get the acceleration measurements. The current
training method is, of course, by visual feedback. So, if the teacher sees you doing something,
then she’ll tell you. But this acceleration could be a more fine-grained tool for dancers to use to
make sure that their movements are as smooth as possible.
[0:24:45] BW: Yes. So, thinking of all that you’ve learned in this research, not just with dance,
but also the research into fencing, and the brain research, like what’s one big thing that you put
into back into fencing? In other words, like when you go out there, here at Summer Nationals,
and compete. I think you're competing today, right? You're in your fencing lights right now as
you're about to present, and then go out there and compete. So, what's something that you
actually use on the strip?
[0:25:12] SN: I would use the joint health, things that I've learned, and especially about joint
angles. So, I've tried rolling my ankle less often. That's sort of been successful. I've been able to
not roll it as much, but occasionally it does happen where I roll my ankles. Primarily, it’s the fact
that I need to first of all, warm up well before fencing. Second of all, just keep my joints healthy
by not over-flexing my knee, for example, or rolling my ankle. If I do those two things, then that
would be my main thing that I take away from my research.
[0:25:53] BW: Yes, that's great. And then, okay, flip it around. Is there something from fencing
that you like, a lesson you've learned from fencing that you use in your research? Obviously, not
the fact that fencing is part of your research, but something that you've learned about yourself
that you use in your research.
[0:26:09] SN: I think I have a very analytical mind in general, especially when I'm fencing when
fencing, when I'm, say, attacking my opponent. I have to really think about, okay, where do I
want to hit on the opponent, and how do I want to execute this. So, I have stages in thinking. I
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think that’s kind of something, I don’t know if I brought it over to my research, but that’s
something that I use a lot –
[0:26:39] BW: There’s clear parallel there, right?
[0:26:42] SN: – in my research, because we're given so much data and there's clearly a lot of
data, especially with this newer phase that I've done. There's 50 fencers I've done, each of them
have done 10 lunges, and there are 60 markers on the person. That's just in just one frame of
the video. So, if you have a 200 to 500-frame video, that's like about a million data points.
[0:27:09] BW: Yes, was that all?
[0:27:10] SN: It is a lot. So, you really need to take the time and analyze the data and make
sure you’re processing it correctly. So, I think that’s one thing that have carried over.
[0:27:21] BW: Totally. So, what’s next for you and your research? We’re talking on, during
Summer Nationals, mid-summer, I guess, you could say, or early summer. By the end of 2025,
like, what do you want to have accomplished next?
[0:27:35] SN: So, mainly the new brain research that I've started, we're sort of putting together
a report. We are working on getting all of data analysis and main conclusions finished, and then
packaging that in a presentable format. And of course, I have the neuroscience conference this
November. So, that'll be my first poster presentation of that project, so we want to get it finished
by then. That's kind of what I'll be working on all summer.
[0:28:06] BW: The clock is ticking. Okay, and then finally, like if everybody listening remembers,
let's say just one big lesson from your journey so far, and obviously, it's continuing, and
hopefully we'll continue our annual conversations. But so far from what you've learned, if there's
one big takeaway you'd like people to extract from this episode, what would it be?
[0:28:28] SN: This will end up being two takeaways, but in terms of fencing as the sport, please
focus or give a priority to your joints and don't roll your ankles and try not to overflex your knee
joints.
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[0:28:43] BW: Even if you're 12, 13, 14 –
[0:28:45] SN: Even if you’re 12 to 80 years old, just keep your joints healthy so you can fence
longer. My research takeaway for anyone listening who is interested in STEM research, they're
always people willing to help you. I have gotten a lot of help from various mentors along the
way, and I've spoken a lot about my interactions with them. So, if you're really interested in a
subject, pursue it, and there will always be someone willing to help you.
[0:29:20] BW: Even if you're like, “Well, I'm a teenager, they're not going to answer my email.”
Obviously, your evidence that not only are they going to answer, but they're going to let you into
some of these really cool places, give you access to this high-tech equipment, and then look
where you've ended up already.
[0:29:35] SN: Yes.
[0:29:35] BW: Well, congrats and good luck.
[0:29:37] SN: Thank you.
[0:29:37] BW: I know you've got a presentation here in about 20 minutes and then plenty of
fencing to do. How many events are you in here in Milwaukee?
[0:29:44] SN: I have five events. So, we're here for a while.
[0:29:48] BW: Five fencing events, two presentation events. All kinds of fun stuff. Well, Supriya,
thank you so much, and good luck, and we'll be following the next chapter.
[0:29:56] SN: Yes.
[0:29:57] BW: All right. Well, thanks. Great.
[0:29:58] SN: All right. Thank you.
© 2025 First to 15 14
FTO15 S2E7 Transcript
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:30:00] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be
back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date
on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you liked
this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until
next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the Strip. Bye.
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