Our guest is Supriya Nair, a 13-year-old foil and epee fencer from Redmond, Wash., who investigated the importance of warming up before fencing for a project she calls "Neurofencing."
In this episode of First to 15, we're joined by Supriya Nair, who fences with the Rain City Fencing Center in Washington state.
Supriya had always heard from her coaches that pre-bout warmups were important, but — being the curious future scientist that she is — she wondered if there was any quantitative data to prove it. So she set out to investigate this for herself — using special equipment to test that hypothesis. The result was an award-winning experiment she calls Neurofencing.
First to 15: The Official Podcast of USA Fencing
Host: Bryan Wendell
Cover art: Manna Creations
Theme music: Brian Sanyshyn
EPISODE 8
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell. And in this show, you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting and insanely talented people in the sport we all love. First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community, and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. Whether you're an Olympian, or Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you.
With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:40] BW: Our guest today is Supriya Nair, a 13-year-old foil and epee fencer from Redmond, Washington who fences with the Rain City fencing Center. Supriya had always heard from her coaches that pre-bout warm-ups were important. But being the curious future scientist that she is, she wondered if there was any quantitative data to prove it. So, she set out to investigate this for herself using special equipment to test that hypothesis. And the result was an award-winning experiment she calls Neurofencing. We'll hear all about that in this episode.
Welcome to the podcast, Supriya.
[00:01:14] SN: Hello. Thank you for inviting me.
[00:01:15] BW: Yeah. This is great. And we should say we're recording this live from Summer National. So, we're actually in-person. And your dad's here. This is really great to have a live podcast here on First to 15.
Before we get into the conversation about neurofencing, let's start by talking about your own fencing journey. How long have you been fencing? When did you start? All that good stuff?
[00:01:36] SN: Well, I’ve been fencing for over the last five years now. And I started around 2017, '18, around that. And how I got into fencing? Funny story. My brother's classmate was a saber fencer. And there was a Summer Nationals in San Jose. And my brother said, "You want to go watch?" And I came with, and I saw her and saber moving really fast. I’m like, "This sport is really cool." I researched about it. And I really liked it. That's how I started. Yeah.
[00:02:08] BW: Yeah. It does look cool. And then when you get involved, you see that there's a lot that goes into it that maybe you wouldn't have known at first glance, which is exactly what led you to do this research, right?
I know you've stated that before you started the research, you weren't super disciplined about warming up before fencing. And I, in the same way, before I go on a run, I don't stretch, any of that. But what were your warm-ups like before the project? Before you got into this?
[00:02:36] SN: I would not really stretch. I would just stretch for a couple minutes and then wander around, watch some other games. And then my parents would be like, "Why aren't you warming up?" I said, "I already warmed up." I wasn't self-driven to warm up and get ready for the tournament. I would just do it for the sake of doing it. I wouldn't really stretch out and get ready.
But after the project, I realized that warm-up is actually important. And that warm-up was taking a toll because of the pandemic. Because of the club's shutting down, you don't get the same routine of warm-up as you do by yourself. That also contributed to a diminishing performance. But after the project, I realized that warming up is actually useful, and that people should warm up well before a tournament. That really changed how I warmed up.
[00:03:31] BW: Yeah. You had some evidence to back it up. Speaking of – Let's back up a little bit and talk about your hypothesis. Going into this research, what did you think you would find?
[00:03:43] SN: Well, for my heart, it was kind of obvious. Because every time you exercise, you can see, whether your smartphone or you watch, that your heart rate is above 120, around. You can probably consider that something related to exercise is getting your heart rate up.
And for your brain, it took a little while for me to really consider what I thought would happen. But researching a little bit about the five different frequencies, from sleep to aware, I thought, like, during a fencing bout, you're like intensely concentrating. I thought the frequency from before tournament, from relaxing and excited, to a focused and concentrated. That would be something that I could think about. Then for the muscles, you really – The muscles, they're cold once you start warming up. They probably won't stretch enough. They won't move faster the way you want them to move. But after warming up, they get more fuel and energy. So, they probably will execute faster.
[00:05:01] BW: It's just putting some numbers behind what you had always been told by your coaches, that like warming up really is important and it's going to make you a more reactive and better fencer, right? In the sense. And I know you said in one of your slides that you were thinking there would be about a 15% increase even in reaction time, right? Which in fencing is super important. Warming up would give you that 15% increase, which in fencing is a huge edge. What did you actually end up finding?
[00:05:32] SN: Well, I actually ended up finding that this reaction time would improve by about 20%, which is really useful in a fencing situation, because reaction time is really important in fencing. And you're reacting to what your opponent's doing. And faster movement. That is a huge deal for fencers. So, that when they warm up, they can have better fencing and better results.
[00:06:00] BW: And so, you did a 15-minute warm-up. And there was a presentation that you've given that we'll link to in the show notes here as well. But you did a 15-minute warm-up. And when you were done with that, how did you actually test your own reaction time to see whether it was making a difference?
[00:06:17] SN: I would use the special equipment from the Backyard Brains company, and I would attach the electrodes to my muscles. And I would have a stationary target about six feet away from me. And we had to extend the cables. Because, obviously, handling a weapon in front of a static dummy is going to be dangerous to the equipment as well as me. I have to wear the safety equipment, like a fencing mask and the glove. And my equipment has to be a decent distance away from while I’m lunging.
I extended the cables. And that way, every time one of my brother would press the reaction timer. So, every time I would hear that, I would lunge towards the target. That was how I measure it. Then to analyze it, the software itself, you can drag the cursor from the start trigger to the first neuron spike being the first initial moving that triggered your first initial reaction time. And that would show you that time in milliseconds. That was how I really measured it all.
[00:07:31] BW: And then like any experiment, you're just doing it again and again. Like, putting yourself through that over and over again. I want to go back to what was really interesting to me, was that, like you said, it's a 19% faster reaction time, right? Almost 20%. And in a sport like fencing, that is huge, right? What does that tell you? What's the takeaway for someone listening to this that is thinking, "Okay, if I can get that kind of an edge, then that could be the difference between winning or losing a bout."
[00:08:05] SN: That 20% does increase or better your physical performance. I can't guarantee it'll give you like a really good result. But it'll really improve your physical performance itself and will allow you to fence to the best of your ability.
[00:08:22] BW: Yeah, absolutely. What's been the response so far to other fencers? I know here at Summer Nationals, you had a couple of presentations that were well attended by members of the community. What has been the response from your fellow fencers when they hear about this?
[00:08:38] SN: Many of them told me that, "This warm-up, it was good that there was quantitative data to support it, because we were just doing it for the sake of like coaches telling you, "Warm-up, guys. Your performance will improve." It was good that there was numerical data.
And I found that most of these fencers actually like understood that warm-up was a good idea over the years of doing it because of being told by the coaches. There wasn't really like, "Eh! I didn't warm up properly," kind of reaction. But I mostly got responses such as like, "Okay, it's nice that there's quantitative data to support it."
[00:09:20] BW: Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't just someone saying that they wanted you to do that, because that's what their coach told them, and their coach told them. There's actual data to back it up. I think it's really interesting, too, that you've won some awards for this research, including first place at the Washington State Science and Engineering Fair. I have to assume that the judges weren't fencers themselves. What impressed them about your research given that, I imagine, they didn't come from a fencing background like you do?
[00:09:49] SN: Yeah. None of the judges were from a fencing background. But some of them really understood neuroscience itself and how the brain really works. And they were really experts at it. When I presented to them, they gave me really nice feedback about how you can build up your experiment. And that it's a really great beginning. And that from there, it can sprout different directions.
For example, one of the judges told me that in response to I wanted to see whether when your brain gets to an extremely awareness state, you kind of blank out. And that's not a very good thing in a fencing bout.
[00:10:32] BW: Yeah, that's not ideal.
[00:10:33] SN: And you'll be like stressing out everything. You don't want that. I wanted to find out like calming methods. One of the judges suggested meditation is an avenue for experimentation. And some people suggested looking at sleep and relation to reaction time. I got very constructive feedback. And I think that was the most valuable.
[00:10:58] BW: Sure. Yeah. And that's the great thing about scientific research in general, is you can publish or present your findings. But that's not the end of the road, right? Like, you're 13. And so, each year maybe, right? You could continue adding layer and layer onto this research and just make it better and better, right?
[00:11:16] SN: Yeah.
[00:11:16] BW: That brings up an interesting question. You are only 13. But have you already started thinking about what you want to do with not just with neurofencing, but with your career after high school?
[00:11:28] SN: Right now, I really want to be a neurologist and a neuroscientist, because the brain is one of those organs that we don't know much about. And one in five people get a neurological disorder in their life. And there's no cures for them. Zero. But for other diseases such as typhoid and pneumonia, we have treatments and cures for that.
But for no neurological disorder has any treatment or cure to it. It's just reducing the symptoms is the kind of thing that people are experimenting with. And there are so many advances in neuroscience already. For example, neuroplasticity. People are experimenting with that, Neuroplasticity, being the ability of the brain to change and adapt to certain learnings that you learn throughout your life. That is also – There's been a lot of research around that.
And electrically stimulating the brain using voltage and sending it through electrodes to various parts of the brain. For example, if somebody has their left leg paralyzed or something, then someone could electrically stimulate the neuron that controls the left leg and could innervate it without actually going through the brain. And that way, that'll allow for relief in terms of symptoms-wise. But it can also cure many things.
[00:12:58] BW: Right. Yeah. I can tell, you're going to be like really successful in that, because you're talking honestly way over my head in a lot of cases. And it's super interesting. That's really great. When you think about this project and your fencing experience so far, how has that helped you like in other areas of life? Like, your class work and the other things that aren't happening on the fencing strip?
[00:13:27] SN: This research – I mean, neuroscience-wise, I’ve really enjoyed. It really benefited my academic career, I guess. So, it was really nice researching. It got me more into science and STE. Otherwise, I didn't really see much different aspects of my life relating to this research. But it was really fun. And I used – Like, it was really nice just investigating and going through the scientific method and all the steps needed for experimentation that would be needed for later life.
[00:14:06] BW: Yeah, absolutely. And it's a good reminder that you really can combine two passions like that, for you, neuroscience and fencing. You can combine them together in interesting ways. And so, someone else who is curious about one aspect of fencing, they could turn that into a school project, right? There's nothing stopping you from doing that.
[00:14:28] SN: Yeah.
[00:14:29] BW: Yeah. That's really interesting. And then finally, just kind of a broad question that I like to ask on this podcast, which is why do you love fencing? I mean, we know that you're super passionate about the brain and the muscle connection. But why do you just love being out there fencing?
[00:14:46] SN: Well, fencing, to me, is very exciting. I love having that element of surprise and strategy, as well as it gives you a lot of skills, like speed, and agility, and flexibility. As well as it allows you to react better to different stimulus around you. And it requires a lot of these skills. And so, you build them up as you grow into a better fencer. That's what I really like about fencing, is that you can build so many of these skills that you may need for later parts of your life.
[00:15:22] BW: Yeah. That's great. And there's so much more to come from you. And so, like I said, in the show notes, we'll have some links to your research and all the great work that you've done and continue to do. Good luck with that. And good luck in the rest of the tournament. And thank you, too, Supriya, for joining us.
[00:15:38] SN: Well, thank you so much.
[OUTRO]
[00:15:40] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And if you like this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review.
Until next time, I’m Bryan Wendell. And I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
[END]