Our guest is Ralf Bissdorf, the Women’s Foil National Coach for Team USA.
In this episode of First to 15, we're joined by Ralf Bissdorf, the Women’s Foil National Coach for Team USA!
Ralf is a two-time Olympian with Team Germany, a silver medalist at the 2000 Olympics in Sydney and spent more than 500 days ranked as the No. 1 men’s foil fencer in the world.
In 2001, he was awarded the Silver Laurel of the Federal Republic of Germany — the highest award for a sportsperson in Germany.
Then he shifted to coaching and has been just as successful there — considered by many to be a mastermind in the coaching field.
We'll be talking about his journey, his goals for Team USA and his insights into the sport.
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First to 15: The Official Podcast of USA Fencing
Host: Bryan Wendell
Cover art: Manna Creations
Theme music: Brian Sanyshyn
EPISODE 27
[INTRO]
[00:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell, and in this show you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting, and insanely talented people in the sport we all love. First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. So whether you're an Olympian or a Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you. With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:40] BW: Today's guest is Ralf Bissdorf, the Women's Foil National Coach for Team USA. Ralf is a two-time Olympian with Team Germany. He's a silver medalist at the 2000 Olympics in Sydney, and spent more than 500 days ranked as the number one men's foil fencer in the entire world. In 2001, he was awarded the Silver Laurel of the Federal Republic of Germany, which is the highest award that Germany awards to a sports person. After that, he shifted to coaching and has been just as successful there. He's considered by many to be a mastermind in the coaching field. So we're going to talk with Ralf about his journey, his goals for Team USA, and specifically our women's foil team, and his insights into the sport.
So, hey, Ralf, great to see you. Thanks for joining us.
[00:01:24] RB: Yes. I'm very happy to join so. I hope it's going to be fun.
[00:01:29] BW: Yes, this will be fun. We've had some great conversations before, and I'm excited to capture that for our listeners. Let's start out with something that was really interesting to me when we talked, which is the differences between men's foil and women's foil as things stand in 2023. So obviously, you're the Women's Foil coach, and you've spoken about how you love that sport, that discipline. What are some of those differences? Why do you like women's foils, specifically, and how amazing some of our athletes are?
[00:01:57] RB: I mean, first of all, I'm obviously biased because I'm the women's foil national coach. I think women’s foil currently is way more interesting in several ways. I think, tactically, it's more interesting because there is a better balance between offense and defense. I think foil offense is very much in advantage. So I think in women’s foil, there’s a better balance, which opens up way more tactical possibilities. I think coaching women is generally more complex. I think the psychological part plays a bigger role in women's fencing than it does in men's fencing. I liked that complexity, and I also liked that there are more tactical options because it makes the coaching job way more interesting.
[00:02:41] BW: Yes. It makes it more of a challenge for you. I know you're up to that challenge, especially because you've been there yourself. You've had some of those challenges in your own fencing career. I want to just jump right to the 2000 Olympics. So September 20th, 2000, Sydney Exhibition Center in Australia. Just like a NAC, everything at the Olympics happens in one day, right? Your entire men's foil individual competition, single day. So tell us about that day. What do you remember? What happened on that date?
[00:03:13] RB: Oh, I remember a lot. So the morning, the first thing that I remember is like, okay, I warm up. It's not so particularly interesting. But they played the song of the Sydney Olympics when we walked in for the first match, and I kind of fell in love with that song the prior days. I was a little bit teary-eyed there and like, “Finally, this is where you wanted to be. This is where you wanted to fence all your life.” So I wasn't particularly nervous. I felt like I'm super well-prepared, and I felt this is where I want to want to be. A lot of people later said, “It looked like you really enjoyed that day,” and I did.
In Germany, we had two people which were hopeful for a medal. Luckily, my teammate won a medal the year before in World Championships. So he was more in the focus than I was, even though I was World ranked number one going into the Olympics. Then I remember that like the first three, four hits, I scored cold immediately. So I felt really comfortable and really like, “Oh, okay. I arrived where I wanted to be.” So it was really enjoyable.
I went through the rounds. My quarterfinal was like closed. Then there's this huge gap between the quarterfinals and the semifinals because the morning session ends with the quarterfinals. Then there was like a four-hour or a five-hour gap, which is complicated because four fencers, three medals. So there is this risk that you run that you don't win a medal. Then I went with my coach. We went to eat something. We actually went to the Sydney Aquarium, which was right next to the fencing hall. Spend some time there and then it's warm up again. Then, well, ultimately, I won the semifinals, lost the gold medal match. I remember going back to the village very happy with the silver medal.
If you would ever watch a video, you will see me celebrating, even though I finished second. I’ve celebrated more on the medal podium than the gold medalist. So, overall, I mean a fantastic day, really enjoyable, and not much nervousness throughout the day, which I think was a huge advantage.
[00:05:24] BW: I just love the visual of you’re looking at different fish species at the aquarium. When a couple hours later, you're going to be fencing for a medal with, like you said, at the Olympics, there's no double bronze, right? So at that point, you weren't guaranteed a medal even, and here you are just looking at the fish.
[00:05:44] RB: But you have to take your mind off. I mean, walking through an aquarium is not particularly tiring. It's also not particularly exciting. It was a good way to kind of pass time and then go back to the whole warm up again, the usual stuff that one does, and then trying to get the job done.
[00:06:06] BW: Yes, yes. You almost have – it's almost like two days compressed into one, right? Because you've got a whole another warm up you had to do and getting ready for a bout where every touch really, truly mattered. I find that interesting.
[00:06:19] RB: Well, during the whole day, for every match, my coach and I, we warmed up again. So we did a small individual lesson before actually each match, with exception of the gold medal match because I was the second semifinal. There's not much time because like there's the bronze medal match relatively fast. You have to stop by the media because that's just how it is in Olympic Games. You have to talk to or I have to talk to German TV, went out, change the shirt. Then basically, I went back on the strip. So for each match, we had a particular warm up. For the last match, there was no time. So we went just over the strategy and then off you go again.
[00:06:55] BW: Yes. I find that really interesting as well because the idea of having to give an interview before you've actually fenced the gold medal bout that you don't see that at FIU events. They tend to wait until all the fencing is done and then do their interviews. Was that a distraction at all?
[00:07:14] RB: No, it is the same thing. It's part of the deal there, right? So I didn't find it a distraction. German fencing was a bit under pressure because the first two or three days, we didn't win a medal. So the newspaper was already like writing fencing no medal and so on. Then there was high interest on that day because, as I described, so we had a medalist the year before in World Championships. I was world ranked number one. The reporter from German TV is a very nice lady. She wasn't really pushing for it. But, okay, stop by and talk to her two minutes. Then, okay, see you after the gold medal match.
I found it actually very, very pleasant. It's part of being professional, and we are not in the spotlight very often. So if we are in the spotlight once in a while, I might as well do the whole deal and make sure that people see that fencing is an amazing sport.
[00:08:03] BW: Yes, embrace that moment. Is that the proudest moment in your career, that Olympic silver? Or is there some other moment that you'd like to point to and say, “That was the highlight for me.”?
[00:08:15] RB: No. It's probably the highlight of my career. I mean, every four years, you have the chance to win an Olympic medal. That's not so very often. Not so many people win an Olympic medal. Another highlight was when we won the world championship in team because it's a different dynamic. Winning something in team is always on the long run probably a little bit cooler because you will meet your teammates later in life again, and you will cherish these moments. Whereas if you win an individual medal, you are basically alone with your coach. So it's a different kind of memory.
Then at a very late stage of my career, I became German champion when I was already kind of semi-retired. So that's like a sweet end of the career kind of memories. So that's the three highlights of the career, so very different. Individual team and then like, okay, I'm old, but I could still pull off a German championship. Then like, okay, retire with a real cool result in the end.
[00:09:11] BW: Yes. You and I have actually talked about that before. I find that super interesting, the team almost having more longevity in the sense that you still keep in touch with your fellow world champion teammates, right? You can share that moment. Whereas the individual one, like you said, there's your coach. There's maybe some people at your club you trained with. But really, there’s only one medal, and you've got it, right? Do you see that dynamic as the way I described?
[00:09:42] RB: Yes, absolutely. I mean, hopefully, next year, in the Paris Olympics, we will be successful. It would be actually a dream to say like, “Okay, let's meet 10 years after. See where everybody is in life. Come together for dinner and cherish the memories.” I think that's something that I would really look forward to, in case we are successful. If somebody wins an individual medal, that's a little bit more not complicated. But it's a different dynamic. So, yes, I would love to meet in 2034 if I'm still alive then, and then meet with the team, and celebrate a 10-year anniversary of a very special moment in all of our lives.
[00:10:23] BW: I love that. So speaking of celebrating special moments, the 2000 Olympics, the 2004 Olympics that you competed at, when you think back on that, how has fencing changed?
[00:10:37] RB: Oh, that's a difficult question. I think it has gotten even more dynamic and more physical despite this. I don't think it changed much. In foil fencing, we have always this discussion. What is an attack, and then what is a preparation? Then there are times then where everything is an attack, so nothing is a preparation. Then later, more actions are preparation, and then there will be more attacks on preparation. So that changes with the refereeing, and there's like a pendulum. So sometimes, everything moving forward is an attack. Then everything is like a preparation. That pendulum swings every few years or every decades.
Currently, we are more in this territory where there are more attack and preparation calls. When I fenced the Olympics, it was the same. In between, it went the other way. That's kind of normal, except it’s, I think, more physical. I think it got even more professional if we look at USA fencing, right? So I think our structure and our support is more professional than it used to be 20 years ago as an outside view from Germany. But the fencing itself doesn't change much. I mean, nobody invents a new parry, or the attacks look similar. I don't think there's much real innovation in this sport itself because this sport has been around for like 100 over years in the Olympic program.
[00:11:59] BW: Right. So in 2010, you started consulting for a fencing club in Singapore, and that kind of was the start of your coaching career, right? Including developing a strong pipeline for Singapore fencing, that continues today. So what inspired you to make that transition from athlete to coach? I'm always interested in when that switch gets flipped, so to speak.
[00:12:25] RB: Well, in between, I had actually a communications job. So from 2002 onwards, I worked for a big family-owned company in Germany, where I did communications for several years. I actually didn't want to come back to fencing. So I ended my international career kind of in 2007. I didn’t want to go back to fencing. I was kind of like, “Okay, that's it.”
Then in my job, there was a leadership change, and then I got an offer to go to Singapore for 10 years. So the leadership change in my company, as well as this offer triggered me to like, okay, let's try this out. Then I went to Singapore for four weeks, and I said, “Okay, I'm going to stay a year.” Then a year became three years, then five, because the contracts were always every two years.
What was interesting about Singapore, it was when I went to Singapore, the best result in a world championship in any weapon in any age category was 57th. So it was an immature fencing system, which was not highly successful. Then this challenge, like the underdog challenge to try to make this better and try to push the boundaries, is something that excites me. So to give a little bit of background, I grew up in an epee club, and there was a group of foilists. So we did it the harder way, and that was exciting about Singapore. So there was the ability to do stuff better. Then there was a huge possibility to get immensely better.
Then a little bit later, I got offered a job in Singapore Sports School, where we had very professional structures. Basically, we got high school fencers and try to bring them to the world level before we hand them over to the senior national team or the junior national team. Then through that program, we had Amita Berthier who later became world ranked number one in juniors. She won a medal in Cadet World Championships, which when you started 57thand then four years later you do 3rd, we had somebody winning a gold medal in sabre, which didn't come through our program. But it had a huge impact on Singapore to have a little bit of outside input and to have people there in Singapore who are willing to invest in fencing and like push the boundaries.
Then the year after, we won a silver medal in team, lost against the US in the gold medal match in women's foil in juniors. For a country of like three million people to win a silver medal in fencing when you have developed countries like Italy, France, Germany, the Asian countries, was just outstanding, something that I didn't believe was possible at the time. So I was very surprised by the result.
Then three of the fencers who were on that team came through our sports school program. So it shows that we had a real impact there. The sports school program was done from scratch. So that was a white canvas, which I was asked to fill. It’s quite rewarding to see that through this program, there are a lot of medals which were generated because we build something from scratch without any structure before. That was really exciting. You never have these opportunities anywhere else.
[00:15:41] BW: Yes. That blank canvas, it's shifting to your role as national coach for Team USA’s Women's Foil Team. Definitely not a blank canvas. There's a lot of history there, right? But you still have an opportunity to come in and make a difference which you have. So backing up a little bit, for people who don't know, we have seven national head coaches, right? One for each weapon, one for para fencing. Can you tell us what some of your primary responsibilities and maybe even some challenges are as a national coach?
[00:16:14] RB: First of all, national coach in the US is a different job than in other countries. So I don't work with any of the athletes in the senior team on a daily basis. So that's all – we benefit from the excellent work of the coaches at home and in the clubs. So it's a little bit more like a general manager role. Then in team, okay, so I'm in charge of the strategy and tactics. We do video analysis once in a while. So that's my role.
Some other things that we try to improve between Tokyo and Paris was we have a lot of fencers that are injured. So in a women’s foil, we have a lot of high level fencers. We have career-altering or career-ending injuries. So we want to push forward that there's a better way to do injury-prevention monitoring. We are still in the process there, but we are really a little bit better than we were before.
Then with the input of athletes like Lee or Jackie, which in the beginning said sometimes it's a little bit chaotic in the box, a little bit more structured there to calm things down a little bit more there. So these are some of the responsibilities. I mean, when I applied for the job, the primary goal is everybody should have the best shot to be successful. Whoever will represent us in 2024 in the Olympics in women's foil, they all deserve to win an Olympic medal. So my main responsibility is to try to give us the best shot that we can accomplish this goal. If we accomplish this goal, I will be the happiest man because we will have three or four fencers who come home with an Olympic medal, which will be a memory for them for the rest of their lives. I know how much mine changed my life. So I hope that I can play a part to change their lives in the future.
[00:18:04] BW: Yes. Watching you in the box, I would describe you as both calm but also energetic, in the sense that you're living and dying by every touch. You’re right there cheering along with them. What is your goal when you're sitting there strip side during a team match?
[00:18:21] RB: It depends. Often, I try to be the balance in that box, right? So if everybody gets nervous, I try to be calmer so that the scale doesn't get out of balance because if everybody's nervous, and then I display nervousness, and it won't work, going a vicious cycle in nervousness. When I feel that the energy is not good enough or like that we have to be louder because on the other side people are very loud, I will be more energetic.
So the idea is probably to find a good balance between, okay, we need more energy. But on the other hand, also, stick to the strategy and still talk to people. Be calm. So this balance of what is needed in the moment, what is needed for the specific fencer, what is needed for – I mean, if we are 20 points up, I don't need to scream like crazy. If we are three hits down, and we need some energy, I will scream a little bit more.
I think finding the right balance and finding the right for every match and every point gap or something, I think that is important. That's basically how I approached this in the box and then trying to create an environment where everybody can succeed or – function is the wrong word. But like where everybody has the best shot to succeed. For different fences, that's always a little bit different.
[00:19:40] BW: So one thing that interests me about the US national coaches in general is that am I understanding right that in other countries, a national coach picks the team, picks all four purely based on their own subjectivity. But in this country, we have a point system. So you are given the hand you're dealt, to use that cliché, and you're going to take the top four to Milan this summer. Those are the athletes that are going to be on the team. Am I understanding that difference, right? How do you approach the fact that these aren't the athletes that you’ve picked, but they're the four that have been determined through a formula you helped create to be the four best?
[00:20:25] RB: It's not in every country that the national coach can select the top four. So in some countries, it’s a mix. The coach can select the third and fourth fencer. In theory, in the United States, the national coach can replace the fourth fencer by anybody who is ranked fifth to eighth. The reality is that our team went through a transition. We had fencers retiring, so we had to go through a transition anyway. We had to integrate young fences. We are blessed that we have very exciting, highly successful, young athletes, right?
Currently, in the team, if you take a look at the rankings, so we have two established fencers, which are ranked one and two. That's Lee and Jackie. Then we have four younger fencers with Lauren, Maia, [inaudible 00:21:15], and Steffi, which all fenced before in World Cups. As a national coach, I'm very blessed to have so many highly talented and amazing fencers. Then if the ranking system wouldn't allow us to pick the best four, I think then we have to take a look at our ranking system.
Then as a national coach, my job ends in 2024, right? My contract ends in 2024. But if I would replace a younger fencer with another young fencer, I will signal the fencer national coach doesn't trust you. I trust somebody else more. That might not be the very best idea for the long run to 2028 when we have Olympic games at home.
[00:21:58] BW: In other words, if you were to swap out the number four ranked person with, let's say, the sixth or seventh, purely based on your own assessment, then that might send a message that could affect that fencer’s long-term career. I see.
[00:22:11] RB: Yes, absolutely. I believe if you look at our results over the last, since 2022, we have done really good results in World Cups. We have done that with different teams. All of the top six fences have fenced in teams. We have been successful in various configurations. If you look at the data, the data doesn't show that even one of the fencers is particularly bad in team which would warrant that at this stage, we will take the fencer out. I mean, if there would be data that one fencer doesn't win a single match in team over the stretch of one and a half years, I think then there is a point. But there is data. It’s not subjective.
Plus in the US, if the national coach changes, there's actually a committee. So I cannot change by myself. I have to make a suggestion. I have to justify the suggestion. Then a committee will vote on it. But for now, there is no need to look at this because in any configuration, we have been successful.
[00:23:12] BW: Not only the senior team, but then the junior team as well. I was there with you in Plovdiv. What does the success of our junior team athletes tell you about? We're going to talk about Paris in a second. But our prospects for like LA and beyond, what does that tell you?
[00:23:31] RB: I mean, before I got the job, I took a look at the statistics. So the statistics is relatively simple. Nobody has won a senior team or individual medal who hasn't won one in junior or cadets before in world level, so in world championships. At a time last year, when I applied for the job, I believe we had 18 fencers in the country, which had a world championship medal either in cadets, juniors, or seniors. So that's just an insane talent pool. Not everybody will win a senior medal, obviously, but you have a talent pool of potentially 18. If there is an outlier, even better. Then you have 19 or 20, right?
This year, we had two fencers who won their first World Championship medal. Okay, some said they will retire. So we are still around this number 18. To have 18 fences to potentially go on the long run to 2028 is just a luxury. I don't know if any other country in the world has this kind of talent pool. It's just a testament to how strong we are in cadets and juniors. It’s a testament to the coaches who work in clubs and every year produce athletes, which are able to win a medal in World Championships.
I mean, just now in the Junior World Championships, Lauren Scruggs is retiring from the juniors and now going to seniors. She has won nine medals in cadet and juniors in World Championships. It's just incredible. [inaudible 00:24:55], I believe, has four medals if I remember that correctly. It's equally insane. Talented fencers like this who invest a lot of time in our sport and try to combine it with high-level education makes me very optimistic for 2028 and even beyond.
I mean, I traveled with the cadet and juniors. We are really, really dominant there. All we have to do is to make sure that fencers don't quit after college, and that we give them an exciting perspective to stay in the sport, even though they have jobs.
[00:25:27] BW: Yes, right. That is a challenge that is not unique to the United States, but certainly is prevalent here is after college, supporting our fencers to keep them fencing, right? Because when you look at the average age of Olympic champions, it's not college age. It's a little bit after, right? So we need that long-term support.
Shifting to the Olympics, each of these team events at World Cups and Grand Prix tournaments is helping our ability to qualify a team, right? That's the basic way to explain how we get a full complement of women's foil athletes in Paris, right? So that makes the team event, obviously, super important that at these World Cups. I'm curious. We’ve talked about the team selection, but I'm curious how you build the roster for an individual match, picking the three who are going to compete, and also picking the order in which they will compete.
[00:26:25] RB: Well, it’s an interesting process. I was told that sometimes in the past, it was done differently. So, generally, I try to develop an idea. So like, okay, what is my idea? How do I want to start this match? How do I want to fence this match? Then I present it to the team. So I speak to the athletes. I ask, “Okay, this is my idea. This is what I want to do. This is why I want to do it this way.” Then we either come to a consensus. Or there are concerns. Then I will listen to their concerns, and we will evaluate those concerns.
Then most of the time or, actually, every time, we come to a consensus. If we wouldn't come to a consensus, well, ultimately, I will decide. Somebody has to decide, and that's my role. But most of the time, we come to a consensus. Often, the team likes the idea that I present. Sometimes, it's a mix of gut feel. Sometimes, it’s based on data. Sometimes, it’s – I mean, if we have fences like Lee, which can do a lot of damage, given that she's number one in the world, sometimes the question, do we try to let her finish the match? She is generally a relatively high-risk fencer. Then in order to catch up, she has to fence even more risk.
Then when does this get so dangerous that it reaches a tipping point? So is it wiser to put Lee second last so that she can do even more damage there with a little bit less pressure and then see? Can we get the match [inaudible 00:27:48] afterwards? Or can Lee give us a lead or like us Jackie's physicality in the middle of a bout? Every of the fencers bring something to the team which can be of value in individual matches. Then just finding the right balance and finding the right idea.
The first time when I was in charge, we came up with this idea that we let Maia Weintraub anchor the gold medal match, and she hasn't fenced much team before that. Because we believe that we, hopefully, have a lead there, and she can bring it home, and we wanted to use Lee and Jackie in a different position. The first time we ever won a World Cup competition in team. Then six weeks later in Guadalajara, we let Lauren Scruggs anchor against Italy. It was her fifth individual bout in a team match. So she has fenced altogether five bouts and her fifth bouts, incurring a gold medal match.
We just believe that’s a better strategy because we hadn't beaten Italy in a long time. So we wanted to focus on the beginning of the match to take a lead and not worry about the end so much. It ultimately worked out there. Just having these ideas and then I presented the idea and they agreed. We asked Lauren whether she's comfortable, and then ultimately decided, okay, this is what we're going to do.
It doesn't always work. That would be great if we always put the magic out of their hand. But at least have a discussion about it and figure out what we think is best. Sometimes, we get it right. There will be moments where we get it wrong. That's just how it is. But sometimes playing, a little bit with strategy there, and we have other teams adjusting to us afterwards is a good feeling. This is something that we want to continue to do.
[00:29:35] BW: How rewarding is it when you do make the right call and you're – you see that anchor go out there and perform, whoever it is. Like you said, we have got a lot of amazing women who can fulfill that role. But you're like, okay, this is the call I made. The team backed me up on it. Then we got the win, and script played out as I predicted.
[00:29:56] RB: It is rewarding, but it's a common decision. In one of the competitions, I made a change, which I wouldn't make looking back, and we lost the match. I believe a major part of why we lost the match is because I made this change. So I humble to myself there, right? So sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it doesn't. What is very rewarding is, obviously, if you have 19 and 20-year-old anchoring gold medal matches because it puts them through an experience, which might help us in really important matches. I also hope that they feel that the national coach trust them, despite their young age, which I think is potentially huge.
You'll never know. We never know what happens and who needs to anchor what match. If fencers have gone through this experience or the current team, everybody has anchored a match before, so everybody has this experience. I don't want to run into a risk that one day somebody has to anchor a really important match and has never done it before. So there is some side effects of that too.
Obviously, when you win a World Cup competition, and it's the first time that you coach a team, you go home and like, okay, I'm happy. Some coaches asked me why. If you're still under probation, why do you take this risk? I didn't feel it was a risk. I felt it was the best possible lineup. It’s not about me. It's about the team. So it feels good. There are some nice side effects to it. But I also got it wrong before.
[00:31:30] BW: Yes. Well, that's the vibe I've gotten from you. I've even seen you say, “No, I don't need to be in this particular team photo because it's about the team.” I just respect that a lot, the way that you – just how humble you are for an Olympic medalist and someone who's coached at this high level. What do you attribute that to?
[00:31:48] RB: My coach myself was a very humble person. The athlete should be in the spotlight, not the coach. Yes, I play a role in this team, right? But, ultimately, they are on the strip, and how much percentage of the performances they are doing, and how much percentage of the performance is my doing. Then I always say I've been in enough photos in my life. I know how I look. I don't necessarily need to be there all the time. If somebody wins an individual medal, I think their club coach should be there. Their personal coach should be there because my impact might be there, but it's not as big as the fencers and definitely not as big as the coach of the fencer.
Then in team, yes, I play a role, and I'm happy to be on those team photos. It's a team effort. With the excellent work of the coaches at home, we wouldn't have such an excellent team, and I wouldn't be able to work with such an excellent team. I think having this humbleness and this awareness kind of helps, and they deserve the spotlight more than I do.
[00:32:55] BW: So let's talk about Paris now. I know that there's a lot more competition to come before Paris, and no one's guaranteed a spot at the Olympics, obviously. We've got World Cups. We've got the World Championships in Milan. But how do you see these next, I don't know what is it, 15 months or so before Paris playing out as it comes to preparing our women's foil team for success on that biggest stage?
[00:33:25] RB: Well, number one, I approach this with the same humbleness. Currently, we are number two in the world. I think we have to be humble. We need to qualify first. Do I have any doubts that we will qualify? No, I don't. But our approach is with humbleness, but also with the confidence. We are number two in the world. We have a really good team, and we will qualify. In the next – I mean, until Milan, there's a lot of points which get ditched out, right? We have two World Cups with team. We have the [inaudible 00:33:51]. We have the world championships, and then the large chunk of the points is actually done. By that time, hopefully, we are in a really good position to say, okay, this is going to work out. The immediate focus is on, okay, let's have a good stretch there.
Then most of our college athletes and also Steffi [inaudible 00:34:08], they will take a gap year. So Jackie stopped working. Lee is currently professional because she interrupted medical school, right? So then we'll have a team which will entirely focus on fencing. We'll have more time to do so with the exception of Lauren, which will stay in Harvard. Then it allows us to do things that currently are very complicated. Doing training camps is currently very challenging because our fences are in really good universities, and they have to balance fencing and education. So they will allow us to be more flexible there and to do more there.
Also, they have more time, so we'll have a stronger focus on video analysis and then doing analysis up to Paris so that we are really well-prepared there. We have done some in the past, and I always felt it had a huge positive impact. So we did one against Japan, right when I started as a national coach. The team had lost in France against Japan. Then in the next competition, we beat them by a margin of, I believe, 20, purely based on the strategy that we all develop together. Then for Italy, the same, we have spent quite a bit of time and looking at videos there, and we're getting closer to beating them. We will intensify that and do it for all teams that we believe are going to qualify so that we are really well-prepared there.
Then making sure that everybody is healthy. I think with the team that we have at USFA, plus with the possibilities that we have in Colorado Springs, I think we will make sure that everybody is super healthy going there, that everybody is well-trained. So I think everything will get more professional even because everybody has more time and then bringing the team more often together. That's how we go there. Then immediately, like, okay, be well-prepared for Milan. There is some time that we spent during the summer nationals where we trained together. Get the video analysis there ready for our opponents. Then see how it goes, where we run into problems.
[00:36:11] BW: Do you know much about how Italy, who are frequent rivals in the finals, how they prepare? Are they all in the same place, relatively speaking, and not spread to Kentucky and Princeton and Harvard?
[00:36:27] RB: I don't think they are all in the same place, but they are pretty close. I mean, France, for example, is centralized. They are centralized in Paris. They all train together. Japan, they are centralized. All train together. Italy, they spend a lot of time together, but they are different clubs, which are not so far away from each other. So Italy is a smaller country than the US. We have this unique structure where it's actually quite hard to get everybody together because we have Kentucky. We have New Jersey. We have Maia down in Princeton. So it's complicated.
But for next year, we will bring the team together more often. This year, we will – unfortunately, actually wanted to go to Colorado Springs. But then with the Russians and Belarussians coming back and the FIE postponing competitions, they put it right smack on that weekend when we wanted to meet in Colorado Springs. Now, with every other week having competitions, it’s quite complicated to do a training camp in between because we are traveling so much. So that has to wait a little bit until beginning of next season.
But coming back to the question, yes, other countries are more centralized. Do I prefer being more centralized? As a national coach, occasionally, probably yes. But I think with this very strong club structure here, it's also like a unique luxury that we have so many strong foil clubs, women foil clubs, or men foil clubs, which come up with athletes, which are all able to win World Championship medals. So if we are centralized or if we will centralize, I think that would be way more complicated to achieve. So there's benefits from both systems. Anyway, we don't have a choice, so we have to deal what –
[00:38:01] BW: All right. Yes. Yes, you've got an all-star lineup at your disposal, and a lot of that is the coaches and the clubs, for sure. So, Ralf, I'd love to know your advice, just from a high level for someone listening who maybe has a child or is themselves a Y10, Y12 fencer, and they say, “This is my dream, the Olympics. What is kind of my path to put myself in a good position to contend someday?” Obviously, it's the best of the best that are going to make it but wanting to put themselves in a position where it could possibly happen.
[00:38:39] RB: I mean, looking back at my own career, I always had a good team around myself. So I had an outstanding coach, which I trusted fully and was an expert in the field. So number one, find a good coach. So how can we determine whether somebody is a good coach? I believe that good coaches work in systems. So they have systems where like, “Okay, this is a defensive system. This is our offensive system. This is how we how we prepare our heads.” So they have a systematic approach. If you take a look at all the successful foil clubs in the country, I think each one of them has a system how their fencers should fence. Or they have beliefs how their fences should fence.
Then a lot of small clubs in the country which have developed outstanding athletes. So look for coaches who have a systematic approach, and then find a good team. I mean, the parents play a huge part because, number one, there is funding. They bring people to the competitions. So you need to have a good support squad. At a certain age, find a good conditioning coach. So find somebody who is an expert in conditioning. Me as a fencing coach, I'm not necessarily an expert in conditioning. So I'm not an expert there.
Then enjoy the journey. Then in the past, for myself, it was always important in a career to divide it up into interim schools. So Y10 fencer will not qualify for the Olympics. So it's not going to happen because we didn't have a 10-year-old representing USFA at the Olympics or the USA at the Olympics. So divide it into smaller goals, and that's what I described before. If you want to win an Olympic medal, you probably have to win a world championship medal in either seniors, juniors, or cadets before, right? In order to win that World Championship medal, what do you need to do?
It's like a subway line, right? So there's a final station. But you're at the beginning of the line, right? So at the end of the line might be you become Olympic champion, right? But the line is long, and there are stations in between. So determine what other stations. Potentially determine when do you want to be at that station, at what time? If you fall behind, figure out is there something wrong. Why am I falling behind? If you're ahead, that's great. Keep going. Keep going.
Not everybody does just like in the subway line. Not everybody will make it to the final stations. People will get out in between. They see they are falling too far behind for the ultimate goal. You can either find another goal, which is less than Olympic gold medal, which, again, like every four years, one person that will win an Olympic gold medal. It’s quite complicated to do. But divide it up into smaller stations and to figure out where are you along that way. Are you ahead of your own schedule? Are you behind? Are you on time? Then make the necessary adjustments if you are behind. I think that's probably the advice that I would give.
[00:41:36] BW: I think that's great advice, and that's a really good place to end it today. Ralf Bissdorf, thank you so much for joining us and for all the insight you've given. We'll be cheering you on as the World Cup season continues in Milan and beyond. So great to see you. Thank you so much, Ralf.
[00:41:55] RB: Well, thank you very much for cheering us on. Follow us. I think you're doing a great job promoting us. So there's enough information about women's foil and our team out there. It has actually been more fun than I anticipated in the beginning. So this was a fun hour to spend. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk a little bit about myself and the women’s foil team.
[00:42:15] BW: Yes. Thank you so much, Ralf. Appreciate it.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:42:17] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you liked this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or a review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
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