In this episode, recording live at the April NAC, we welcome Mitchell Saron, a Team USA men’s saber athlete, recent Harvard graduate and newly minted member of Team USA for the Olympic Games Paris 2024. Mitchell has turned his childhood dream into an Olympic pursuit. He’s also taken an unusual and strategic approach to his diet and training. So let’s ask him about the routines that keep him at the top of his game and explore the Harvard connection that seems to be a hallmark of success in men’s saber.
In this episode, recording live at the April NAC, we welcome Mitchell Saron, a Team USA men’s saber athlete, recent Harvard graduate and newly minted member of Team USA for the Olympic Games Paris 2024.
Mitchell has turned his childhood dream into an Olympic pursuit. He’s also taken an unusual and strategic approach to his diet and training. So let’s ask him about the routines that keep him at the top of his game and explore the Harvard connection that seems to be a hallmark of success in men’s saber.
EPISODE 53
[INTRO]
[0:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell, and in this show, you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting, and insanely talented people in the sport we all love. First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community, and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. Whether you're an Olympian or a Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you. With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[EPISODE]
[0:00:40] BW: Today we're welcoming Mitchell Saron, a Team USA men's Sabre athlete, recent Harvard graduate, and a new member of Team USA for the Olympic Games, Paris 2024. Mitchell has turned his childhood dream into an Olympic pursuit. He's also taken a very, I guess, we could call it unusual and strategic approach to his diet and training. So, we're going to talk about those routines that are keeping him at the top of his game, and explore his Harvard connection a little bit. We're also recording live here at the April NAC, so that's the noise in the background. Mitchell, welcome. Thanks for joining.
[0:01:10] MS: Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.
[0:01:12] BW: Yes. First of all, we got to start with the big news, which is that you've qualified for Paris. Congratulations on that. What does it feel like to know that you're an Olympian, that you're going to be able to call yourself among that elite group who have qualified?
[0:01:24] MS: Yes. I mean, it's still feels pretty unbelievable. Going up fencing looking to so many guys, like Eli, Daryl Homer, they just seem like untouchable, and I always looked up to them. Even right now, it's honestly been taking almost like a full month for it to really set in for me to actually feel like it's a reality that'll be going to the Paris Olympic Games.
[0:01:43] BW: I mean, can you remember a time when you would come to an event like an April NAC, and see a Daryl and an Eli, and be like, "Those guys, they've got such skill level and such talent. Can I ever reach that point?" Do you ever remember that moment?
[0:01:56] MS: Yes, absolutely. I mean, I was still pretty starstruck by them, honestly, even when I was like 16. It's really cool that when I was – once I was 18 or 19, I finally joined the senior traveling team, and I was able to finally be their teammates. Then, over the course of years, be their friends. Eli, obviously also coached me at Harvard. Now, we're going to be teammates. It's very surreal still, and I'm just really grateful that they worked out this way, and I get to be their friends and teammates now.
[0:02:24] BW: Yes. That has to have been a surreal moment when it clicks over into, now, you're one of them, you're part of that group, and you're part of the group that people are looking up to. Obviously, that takes a ton of work. Then, there's a point in the qualification process where you're like, "Okay. I've got enough points to where I can't be caught in the top three." What was that moment like when you realize that the math worked out? Were you checking on your phone? Did you get a call from someone? When did you get the news that you were in?
[0:02:50] MS: Unfortunately, it wasn't a very climatic ending in Budapest. I didn't have a really good result. The math worked out. Honestly, when I found out I had a moment of relief, just because I knew the math was going to work out, but it didn't really set to me that it meant I'd be qualifying for the games. It honestly took a couple of phone calls, honestly, going all the way back home to New Jersey, and then seeing the USFA Instagram post. I think that finally like woke me up, like, "Oh, this is finally happening." But even after that, like it's still a slow process for me to believe it.
[0:03:23] BW: Then, have people reached out, including family, or maybe even some people, some friends that you hadn't heard from in a little while. They're like, "Dude, this is awesome. You're an Olympian." What has that been like?
[0:03:33] MS: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, when it got announced, my phone was just blowing up. I did communicate a lot with my direct family, like my mom, dad, and my sister. My six closest home friends, and my girlfriend, I was communicating with them pretty well throughout the whole process and what needed to happen. But I was very locked in into my training, and nutrition, recovery stuff. So, I didn't talk to a lot of my friends about what was going on. They knew I was trying to qualify, but I didn't really want to give them too many details. Didn't want to jinx anything. When they finally saw the post, I got a flood of text, flood of calls from people I haven't heard from in a while.
[0:04:12] BW: Yes. You talked about that training routine, the diet and exercise routine, and you've really done a great job of letting people in on that on social media. So, we'll link to your social media channels for those who aren't already following you, which I know most of us are. But, can you describe like what a typical day looks like for training and nutrition, fueling your body and getting ready for Paris?
[0:04:33] MS: Yes. My biggest days or most exhausting days, you could say are Tuesdays and Thursdays. That day, I wake up, let's say around like 8am. I try to get in the sun immediately for like 15 minutes. Got to get your circadian rhythms reset. I have a workout at 9:00 or 9:30 in the morning and I usually do this work out faster. So, I take amino acids which doesn't break my fast, so I haven't eaten yet. Get in the cold plunge before the workout., do the workout, come home. I cold plunge before the workout. Cold plunge is great for recovery.
Most athletes, you're doing cold plunges after your workouts, you're really sore, and that cold plunge is great if you have a lot of load, and I do that as well. You're in a jam, you're working out constantly, and you're just trying to be able to handle a lot of load in the course of a week, and you need the ice bath to recover, you need it for your muscles to recover fast enough so you can keep up this pace. So, I do that as well.
But, doing an ice bath in the morning before workout will shoot up your dopamine, shoot up your testosterone before workout, which will make you have a much better workout in general. It's also definitely a mental thing. Like, getting up in the morning, I'm so tired. Usually, cold in the morning, and it's the last thing you want to do. I kind of just like getting up every morning and just doing something I don't want to do. It's just a good mental game.
[0:05:50] BW: You've got that, then you get out, and then the workout began.
[0:05:53] MS: Yes, workout. I have a great trainer. It's a lot of plyometrics athletic stuff, but general weightlifting. Go home, I cook all my meals now, so I cook my meal. I have a lesson usually around one or two with my coach, Oleg. I come home, so now it's like 2pm or 3pm. If I'm able to schedule my time, right, I go to some form of recovery session. That's either acupuncture or chiropractor. Lucky enough, there's a USFA trainer, Joe who lives in my town, so I get to go to him a lot. Then, at night, I go to New York Athletic Club to train, so that's three practices, usually on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
[0:06:23] BW: That's a wild day. Can we talk more about the diet part of it, and what you're eating. You mentioned that you're cooking a lot of your own food and it looks really great. The visual presentation is incredible. I mean, looking at some of the stuff on your channel, it's like grass fed burgers, raw sharp cheese, organic guacamole. There's a lot of fruit in there. How did you create this diet? Did you read a lot of books about it. What was the process like? Then, also, I want to know how you feel like you have changed since moving to that.
[0:06:55] MS: Yes. I mean, social media definitely popularized this diet. The most common term for it is animal based. I wouldn't say I stick to that very strictly, but that's like the term most people use. It blew up on TikTok and Instagram, I'd say maybe two years ago, or a year ago. But essentially, in August after World Championships, I definitely dabbled with it a bit. But in August, in the summer, I just fell down a rabbit hole with it. Luckily enough, my five closest friends from home jumped in on it with me.
[0:07:23] BW: It makes it easier when you're not the only one.
[0:07:25] MS: Exactly. Now, we've been like peer pressuring our other friends too. Now, we got about like 15 people in a group chat where we send all our meals to every day. But I essentially, the biggest components of the diet that I changed was – and for reference, I have to have a lot of cheat meals when I'm traveling, because I don't have access to this.
[0:07:41] BW: That's fair. You do travel a lot. Yeah. But when I'm home, no grains, no wheat. I'm not having pasta, I'm not having bread. The only bread I am allowed to have is a very simple four or five ingredients, sourdough bread. But most of my carbs are coming from fruit, vegetables, raw honey, raw maple syrup. All the meat I'm eating is grass-fed, so grass-fed beef, grass-fed lamb. All the fish I'm eating as wild caught. Most of the vegetables I'm eating are fermented, fruits are organic. I'm allowed to have white rice. I have that once a week when my mom makes me eat it. Then, pasteurized eggs, a big part of my diet. Then, definitely, a lot of supplementations in my smoothies, or just the pills I take in the morning.
[0:08:26] BW: So, once you made this change, and realize what started as like a social media trend that you wanted to try has obviously turned into a lifestyle, and something that is helping you. What is the actual benefit to yourself? What have you noticed?
[0:08:43] MS: Yes. I mean, the biggest thing I noticed is that the energy levels throughout the day are much more consistent. I'm still burning carbs, as my primary component. I have a huge load, especially at these tournaments, you need to have carbs. I don't believe in going like full ketosis for like a long period of time. But when a majority of the energy you're getting from his from your body burning fats, when your body switches over to realizing that that's it's going to be its main component of energy, your energy levels throughout the day are so consistent. I feel like this throughout the day now. If I do eat out for some reason with family or friends, like if you have pasta or bread, you feel how different it is when your body is burning carbs, and you're just having these huge carb highs and lows throughout the day. You get that 3pm, like I need to take a nap, I feel awful, or the 4pm, like I need to sleep.
[0:09:26] BW: I feel that every day.
[0:09:28] MS: But now, since that happened, I just feel great throughout the day, and I'm able to handle a lot bigger load in my training schedule. This is more of an indirect factor, I would assume. Maybe it's because of Olympic qualification and me just trying to be very focused in. But once I switched my diet, I feel a lot more clear, like no more brain fog as well. I'm much more focused. I never was really a clean, organized person. Now, I freak out if something in my apartment or room is like slightly out of place. I'm immediately doing the dishes now. I used to never do that. So, everything's like very clean.
[0:10:01] BW: How about your actual fencing? Has it had an impact on the way you feel when you're there on the strip?
[0:10:07] MS: Yes, absolutely. I lost I think about 20 pounds. I'm a lot lighter, a lot faster, I would say compared to a year and a half ago. The biggest thing in fencing is we're constantly lunging, and the weight you carry can have a huge load on your hips, your knees, your ankles. I feel like that has reduced the possibility of me having injuries there.
[0:10:25] BW: Which is huge, especially as the Olympics are approaching, because you want to continue that training, but stay healthy.
[0:10:31] MS: Yes. I also feel like my recovery time is a lot faster than it would be in the past to handle this much practice. Then, especially at the tournaments, when we're doing, competing for three days when there's day one, day two, and then the team competition on the third day.
[0:10:45] BW: It's a lot. That's the physical side. How are you working on the mental side of your game?
[0:10:49] MS: Yes. Well, a year and a half ago now, I've been working with the sports psych. That was the first time I've ever done that. That was huge for me. I think that was one of the biggest components that led me here was my sports psych, Lorenzo. Definitely changed my motivation and the reasons behind why I'm here and why I'm here to compete, which was huge for me in terms of what I'm thinking about when I'm actually at a tournament. Then, I also started meditation and breath work, which I hadn't done in the past. That's been really good for me. Even outside of fencing, I feel that's huge for mental health, not focusing too much on the future, focusing too much on the past, because I think most of the time, we're going throughout our day, very mindless.
We're either having anxiety about the future, because we're thinking about things we have to do. Or, we're not happy or grateful in our present moment, and we're thinking about the past. Like, "Oh, remember in high school, remember in college, when I wasn't doing all this stuff." It's good just 10 minutes a day to meditate, and you're really just experiencing the present moment around you, and you're not thinking about anything else, and you're just enjoying the moment.
[0:11:50] BW: Are you able to keep up that on the road as well. I know you said with your diet, just because you're in these foreign countries, you can always do it. What about the meditation?
[0:11:59] MS: Yes, the meditation I can stick to very well. Lucky enough, I've Eli as a roommate. He's very respectful of it. He gets it.
[0:12:04] BW: Yes, he's talked about that, about focusing on the mental game as well. That's good that you both are kind of –
[0:12:09] MS: Yes, we're good influences on each other, for sure.
[0:12:13] BW: One thing that's interesting about the way you have approached fencing, and just getting your mind and body right for fencing is that you kind of compared it to a scientific experiment in a way. How are you integrating that into saying, "I'm going to be testing these different things to see what's going to work." Obviously, you found a formula that has ended up with you at the Olympics. So, walk us through that a little bit, if you can.
[0:12:37] MS: I mean, all the health and nutrition stuff definitely started with fencing, but it's definitely going beyond that, like I'm very into it now. I very much love following creators or doctors on Instagram that are like testing out or talking about new things that are going into like sports, nutrition, or performance. I definitely like to experiment with things that there aren't comprehensive peer reviewed studies about. Some of the stuff with that, like for example is like when I travel now, I bring a hydrogen water bottle. This thing, it looks like this high-tech gadget, and it's very extra, but I saw a long podcast about it. I was like, "Oh, I got to try that."
There's actually a lot of peer reviewed studies about it, but the water bottle will put hydrogen ions in your water. Apparently, that's like the best type of water you can have. I also love to try out different supplements that athletes will say will help. For example, I like cordyceps mushrooms, like I started taking that like an hour before I fence, even at practice, and in tournaments. I've liked that as well. I'm just constantly trying to experiment with new stuff. Obviously, not too much, because I don't want to try something new at a tournament, but I very much enjoy seeing the new science behind certain stuff.
[0:13:43] BW: Yes. Just kind of optimizing and experimenting. That all kind of stems from your academic background at Harvard. I would imagine, your quest for knowledge, and understanding. Speaking of Harvard, the entire team is Harvard. What does that tell you about –because it's not just a coincidence, there's something going on there, and it's something that Drew Colin want to start there in the fall. And you and Phillip to attend there, and then, obviously, Eli before you. What was the secret there?
[0:14:13] MS: I mean, the community at Harvard, not even just with the Harvard fencing team is definitely the main component. But the student bodies, the kind of place, it just makes you feel like you need to pursue your passion, and your goal, and like achieve excellence in that. It's a very uplifting community, and like makes you want to foster the best out of yourself. Such as with the Harvard student body, but alongside that, I mean, Harvard fencing has been amazing. I wouldn't be where I am today as a fencer, if I hadn't gone there. I've been mentored by Daria, Daga and Eli, it's a great community, it's truly a family. I think that's what attracts such great fences there, and then pushes those great fences to pursue even greater things.
[0:14:49] BW: Yes. It's certainly a network that goes beyond just fencing. I've noticed that. Does it help the team aspect, because obviously, you're going to Paris, and going to be competing for a team medal. All four of you have that connection. Does that help at all, or would you be pretty much the same either way?
[0:15:09] MS: I think it absolutely helps, especially with the actual personal relationships on the team. It's just such a storybook ending to this season. I grew up with Phillip with the same age group. We weren't necessarily always wanting to, but we were always very competitive with each other. We'd always find at NAC, it was always 15-14. I can't remember the last time I fenced and it wasn't 15-14.
[0:15:29] BW: He's from Illinois, you're from New Jersey. You're two people who probably wouldn't have met without fencing.
[0:15:35] MS: Exactly. We became friends because of that. We were roommates all four years in college. He actually just moved in with me now. So now, we're roommates again, so we can train for Paris together. Me and Philip obviously grew up together, great friends. Eli was our mentor growing up, and he was our coach at Harvard. It's just so amazing that now, we're on the Olympic team together. Then, of course, Colin Heathcock won in a generation talent. That kid sparks the USA team. Might be a coincidence, but I mean, as soon as that kid joined our team, and like showed us what was possible, everyone started doing better. He's like an inspiration. I'm five years older than him, and like I'm asking him for tips, and it's funny.
[0:16:13] BW: That's good. I mean, no egos on the team. Everybody's kind of willing to do whatever it takes to get success, and as a team, men sabre has had success throughout the season. A medal at every single tournament, which no other weapon on Team USA can say. So, it's been – the consistencies been amazing. Can we go all the way back to one of the reasons why you started fencing? You've said that you had a childhood dream of becoming like a Jedi from watching Star Wars. Now. you're. You're going to be that at the highest level. So, what drew you into fencing in the first place? Do you feel like you're still living out that dream?
[0:16:49] MS: Yes. I mean, I grew up obsessed with swords. Anytime me and my family were walking, we pass a toy store, I'd be begging them to buy me like any of the plastic swords in there. That's because I grew up watching Star Wars, Lord of the Rings. So, I was obsessed with Star Wars. And, I would constantly ask my dad, my mom, and my oldest sister to fight with me in the yard with swords. My mom was sick of it. I think I was in third grade, and she was like fed up. She told her doctor, she was like, "This kid is nuts, he's driving me crazy. Once if I was sore, it's all day." The doctor was like, "One of the best fencing clubs in the country is five minutes from you guys. You should bring him there."
I went there, and then, Oleg, who's been my coach since. It was a saber club, but the other weapons were there, and he wanted to just show me the rules of all them. He showed me, epee, he me foil, and obviously, you have to poke an epee or foil. Then, he showed me sabre and I was like, "Oh, that's the one. That's the one that like Anakin and Luke Skywalker use, I got to do that one. I don't want to poke." No offense to foil and epee fencers, but I wanted to do saver. So, I picked that one immediately. Then, I dropped all my other sports. I still love Star Wars, so it's really cool that I'm here now. I do feel like I lived out my dream, definitely.
[0:17:54] BW: I love that. How do you make sure it stays fun when you're thinking about all these other factors, and every tournament has such weight and importance. Obviously, it looks like you guys are still having fun out there. But you have to work for that to make sure that it's still kind of that same enjoyment.
[0:18:13] MS: Yes. I mean, definitely, it was a lot harder this year with the Olympic qualification, a lot of anxiety for six months, even longer for some people. But it's all about mental preparation. Going back to what I said before, my sports like really was unhappy, you could say with my motivations for fencing before I started working with him. He asked me a lot of basic questions, and he didn't like any of my answers, so I had to really shift my mindset. That mindset was facilitated with meditation and journaling, so he likes me to journal before practice every single day, and then debrief after practice every single day, and do that same thing at tournaments. But the motivation changed is that, I do this sport because I love it. I do it because it makes me a stronger person, a stronger competitor. If I can enjoy that part of it, then there's no reason to compete. That's something you have to remember when you're competing, especially when there's high stakes like Olympic qualification. The first fundamental thing is that, you are enjoying the process, and you're enjoying the present moment, and actually enjoying the nerves, and anxiety that comes with competition, and trying to out think the person in front of you.
[0:19:13] BW: You're not trying to get rid of those nerves. You're just saying this is part of it, just enjoy it all.
[0:19:18] MS: Yes. I mean, everyone gets nervous. Every single person. It's just how you react to those nerves, and what you think about them. If you're going to think, "Oh, I felt bad when I'm nervous." I don't like that mentality. I know I'm going to be nervous every single time I compete. You have to tell yourself, "All these nerves are going to help me, they're going to make me sharper." It's how you frame it.
[0:19:34] BW: Yes. Keeping in the idea of making it fun, and ensuring there's enjoyment. Going to Paris for the Olympics, there's going to be plenty of opportunities for meeting other athletes and spending time in the village. But you're also there to do a job, right? Fortunately, for men sabre, it's front loaded, so it's at the beginning. How are you looking at that and making sure that you get the full Olympic experience while realizing that job one is going out there and competing?
[0:20:01] MS: Yes. I mean, like you said, lucky enough, we're, I think literally the first event, the morning after the opening ceremonies. The bad luck with that is that, we cannot compete, we can't partake in the opening ceremonies, which is a bummer. The timing is unfortunate. I saw the setup, it was going to be on the boats, and everything on the river. That would have been really cool. But from now, now that we've got the team locked up. From now, until July 31, after the team event, it's all business. I'd imagine where – I'm going to go there, I'm not going to think about socializing at all. I'm there to compete, and I'm grateful that it is the first event. So, there's going to be about two and a half weeks to enjoy the village and the whole other experience. But the most important part, and the only thing we need to be focusing on right now is the individual event and the team event.
[0:20:40] BW: I think that's a good mentality. Like you said, there'll be time to meet other athletes. If you're able to let yourself think beyond that team event, is there something that you're most looking forward to about the experience once that last touch is done in the team event, and you're able to explore the village, and go to other events? What are you looking forward to?
[0:20:57] MS: I mean, there's definitely a lot of things I'm looking forward to. Definitely meeting the other athletes. That's going to be really cool. I'm also looking forward to spending time with my friends and family that are going. I have a really good group of people coming from my hometown. from my high school, which I'm really excited for. I don't think I'm going to be able to see them that much, obviously, before my competition. I love them, but they can be very distracting. But yes, I'm very looking forward to spending time with my sister, brother-in-law, cousins, parents, and then my family. Obviously, my USFA teammates once the fencing is over, that's going to be really fun.
[0:21:28] BW: So you'll have a nice cheering section there for you. Have they kind of – before you qualified, were they already having to like scheme behind your back to get tickets and make sure they were there?
[0:21:36] MS: Yes, they took a risk, and they bet on me early enough. So, that was a good decision.
[0:21:44] BW: That's a tough ticket to get, right? Like fencing has been sold out for months.
[0:21:47] MS: Yes. They were able to save some money on their Airbnbs as well, since they were able – they took the risk and booked it a little early. I told them, "Do not add me to any group chats. Don't ask me any questions. Ask my sister anything, but I don't want to think about this at all."
[0:22:00] BW: Yes. Obviously, it worked out for everybody, right? That's awesome. Kind of last question. You've reached the Olympics, the work that you put in has paid off. A lot of people have kind of mentored you and been an idol too along the way. Now, you're in that role. So, what's your advice for younger fencers, people who are Y12, Y14, and they say, "I'd love to find that magic as well."
[0:22:24] MS: Yes. I mean, for young people, young fencers, young athletes, I mean, if you're going to dream, like dream big. If you have a goal, understand that it is going to take a lot of work, but those goals are possible. Don't ever feel like you don't deserve something, or you don't belong somewhere, because someone else is telling you. You decide that on your own. In terms of wanting to take a risk, I took a big risk putting a year off on my life to pursue this sport, but the pain of regret is a lot worse than failure. So, you don't want to not go for a goal if you're not going to give it 100% of your ability, and you're always going to regret not going for it.
[0:22:59] BW: Right. It's the end of this episode, but it's only the beginning for you, so we're excited to cheer you on, and watch you in Paris and beyond. So, Mitchell Saron, congrats and good luck.
[0:23:08] MS: Thank you so much, Bryan.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you liked this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
[END]