Our guest today is saber fencer and 2020 Olympian Khalil Thompson, who is currently ranked in the top 50 in the world in men's saber.
In this episode of First to 15, we're joined by saber fencer and 2020 Olympian Khalil Thompson.
Khalil is currently ranked in the top 50 in the world in men's saber. He represented Team USA at the 2019 Senior World Championships, the Tokyo Olympics and the 2022 Senior World Championships. And he's a three-time national champion in the Division I Men's Saber Team Event as a member of the team from the Peter Westbrook Foundation.
In this episode, we asked Khalil whether he was competitive with his older sister (also a phenomenal fencer), his struggles with anxiety and depression, and how he deals with the pressures of competitive fencing.
EPISODE 15
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell. And in this show, you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting and insanely talented people in this sport we all love.
First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community, and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. Whether you're an Olympian, or Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you. With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:40] BW: Today's guest is saber fencer and 2020 Olympian, Khalil Thompson. Khalil is currently ranked in the top 50 in the world in men's saber. He represented Team USA at the 2019 Senior World Championships, the Tokyo Olympics, as we said, and the 2022 Senior World Championships. And he's a three-time national champion in div one Men's Saber Team Event as a member of the team from the Peter Westbrook Foundation. So, welcome to the podcast, Khalil.
[00:01:06] KT: Thank you for having me. Thank you.
[00:01:08] BW: Let's just dive right in. I read that, as a kid, you kind of followed your older sister, Kamali, into fencing. And she was a saber fencer, and a very good one. But you actually started in foil. What kind of inspired that switch for you from one weapon to the other?
[00:01:24] KT: Yes. When I started fencing at the Peter Westbrook Foundation, I started in foil. And most kids do. But I'm left-handed. I had to sit on the left side of the group just so I'd be able to see. And like my partners were either left-handed and be easier. But that, I happen to sit next to the advanced saber class back when the fencers club and foundation were on 25th Street in New York city.
In those times, I every Saturday morning I would see some, like, my sister, or Marty Williams, Ross Davidson, all the other foundation people, older people, fencing. And I would just never pay attention. I would never pay attention. I was very honest. I was so enamored with saber fencing. And I was just, "I want to do this."
And then my sister also – Those same kids would practice at 12:30 with the rest of the fencers club people also. At that time, I wasn't fencing. Peter Wester Foundation practice is only from – the classes, from 9am to 12 p.m. Then the advanced sabre class afterwards is from 12:30 to – It was from 12:30 to 2:30. Or 12:30 to 3:00 sometimes.
I would sit on the couch and watch them fence. I was spending hours every Saturday just watching other people fence. And the coach at the time [inaudible 00:02:45] came out to me and he's like, "Do you want a fence sabre?" at the end of that year. I've done a full year of fencing foil. And I looked at my mom and I was like, "Please allow me to do it. Please allow me to do it." And she said yes. And I've been fencing saber since. I was 9, 10 around that time. I've been fencing saber since then.
[00:03:04] BW: You were kind of drawn to the – what was it? The speed? The energy of saber?
[00:03:11] KT: It was the energy. It was the energy, and the aggression, the intensity. At that time, I was so into it. And when I was foil, I wasn't a beginner foil class. Everybody was lost. And, yeah, I just didn't see that. But when I saw this saber fencing. And it'd be like you'd see Peter watching. You'd see Keith – At the time Keith Smart and Ivan Lee, they were still training. And they would teach the class to the older kids. Everyone was so engaged in this class. And there was always a stake in every match in some of those fencing. Everyone's fencing with intensity. And I just loved it.
[00:03:48] BW: Yeah, that's awesome. You talked about your sister. And she had a lot of success. And I actually got to interview her right when she retired from fencing. And she called you in that interview one of her biggest supporters. What was that connection like when you were both growing up and really finding your footing in the fencing world?
[00:04:06] KT: It's interesting. For a long time, I was considered the baby brother of the foundation, because I was always – Since I was a kid, I was always known as Kamali's little brother.
[00:04:19] BW: Sure. Sure.
[00:04:19] KT: Then when we started traveling to Senior World Cups, because we have a five-year age difference between us, that's what really got us closer. We spent a lot of time, and we would travel together. We were talking about fencing each other. We would just vet to each other about serious things. And it was great to have like an unbiased person to support you. Not saying like I have close relationship with my teammates as well. But just having that person where I could like really have that connection with. So, my sister. She's one of my best friends. And that was a great thing.
And when she retired fencing, it was really interesting last season, because it was my first time ever fencing without my sister. Since 2016-'17, that was my first time really not being around my sister in fencing. It was very weird. But she's still like – It just happened to be her shifts in the hospital she's working at now or at night. If I was fencing at a World Cup and it'd be like three in the morning here, she'd still be up watching me fence.
[00:05:19] BW: That's awesome. That's coo.
[00:05:21] KT: I still feel that support sometimes even though she's not physically there. But I still feel the support.
[00:05:25] BW: Yeah, that's a hidden bonus of you ending up picking saber as you actually were at some of those same World Cups. Where if you were in foil, you might have been halfway around the world fencing at separate tournaments.
[00:05:38] KT: Way separate tournaments. Different schedules. Different practice times. But we'd just be different people.
[00:05:43] BW: Totally.
[00:05:45] KT: Okay. You were the "baby brother", putting that in quotes. But did you feel like pressure to match or even surpass the accomplishments your sister had? Did you feel like, "Well, I need to work even harder now because I want to do what she's done," and keep that tradition going almost.
[00:06:05] KT: Not really. There was a sense of competitiveness just because you have a sibling and they're older. So, they've done way more than you. But I was able to find my own space in fencing. My sister started fencing at 15, 16. There were the things that's like a younger fencer that she couldn't do. I was a cadet. I was like I wanted to make a cadet team. I have medal in cadet. I have medals from cadets. I have medals in juniors. And I think I have a Junior National title. I don't think she does. But it's not the point.
[00:06:42] BW: So you are keeping track a little bit. Yeah, comparing the trophy shelves.
[00:06:45] KT: A little bit. But like, oh, my God, I have some things. I wouldn't say that. I would say that greatness complements greatness. I would say that – and she was actually like a pretty inspiring for me. Because at some point when I had taken a break from school, she was like – Also, at that same time period when we started traveling together, she was like – I would see that she was like managing being in medical school. Or she would manage it best that she could. If someone's not fully succeeding in everything they're doing, but they're still success. She's a doctor now. That's amazing. That's amazing. No matter what anyone says, "Oh, she didn't make an Olympic team." So what? She's a doctor. That's a beautiful thing.
And I think that because she was able to do that and she tried – She tried to give her all. And she's one of those people who was like, "Oh, you can't do it." She's like, "Okay. Well, I'm going to go do it since you said I can't do it." To me, that's very inspiring. It wasn't more about keeping track of who's done what, X, Y, Z. It's about, "Oh, this inspired me to go be great in what I do.
[00:07:53] BW: Yeah, that's great. Lifting each other up. And something you referenced there is something that I definitely am eager to talk to you about, which is your kind of mental health journey that you've taken. And you've been open about it and public about kind of your battle with anxiety and depression.
And in 2015, you were a fencer at Penn State and then decided to leave after your freshman year and returned home. You even kind of stopped fencing for a time. And then the 2016 Olympics happened. And as the story goes, you saw Daryl Homer win silver medal in Rio in men's saber. Can you tell us kind of that experience and what that did for you to get you to turn that page in your life?
[00:08:37] KT: Well, in that time – Actually, I left after my sophomore year.
[00:08:42] BW: Got it. Okay.
[00:08:43] KT: Yeah. That's fine. I left after my sophomore year. I started feeling the changes in my behavior around that time. The summer leading up to the Rio Olympics, I was lucky enough to train with the guys at the time. I was lucky enough to train with Daryl. And during that summer, though, that's when like we started really become closer. We really like developed somewhat of a relationship.
And just seeing being able to train with him during that time, see the intensity of what he was dealing with, what he was doing, then seeing all the work. I mean, I only did this for a couple of months. The amount of work that he put in a well before that, it was – I mean, all led up to him getting a silver medal at the Olympics. That's amazing.
Just seeing it, just seeming like someone I knew hit that point at the Olympics and say like, "Okay, that is something I always wanted to do when I was younger." And then seeing someone who like you know and likes you, like respect the work that they do to do it and then accomplish it, that was also inspiring.
[00:09:49] BW: Yeah, watching that story play out, was that what kind of told you I need to get back into it? Or was it a conversation with Peter Westbrook? I've heard you talk about that as well.
[00:10:04] KT: It was more my conversation with Peter. Because even though at that time – The Olympics then, that was like mid-July. Like, end of July, early August. I like hadn't decided on staying home. I was like still in the mix. And actually, at that point, I almost quit fencing. I think it was the first time I really talked about this one. But, yeah, I almost quit fencing.
And then I think it took like a month to figure it out. Because at that point I decided to stay at home. I was like, "All right, let me go to practice just so I can be –" I don't know. Just so I can go through it. Because at that point I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't in school. I wasn't figuring – I had no idea what I was doing. I was just going through daily. I was going through the emotions.
And then I sat down with Peter, because Peter recognized. He was like, "You shouldn't be here right now. You should be at school. What are you doing here." I told him. And Peter's not one of those – Peter's not one of those people you could just hide stuff from. If he sees something's off, he's going to call it out in a very respectful way and then he'll ask you.
[00:11:10] BW: He's thinking, you're here in New York, not in –
[00:11:13] KT: Not in Pennsylvania.
[00:11:14] BW: So, something's up. Yeah, got it.
[00:11:15] KT: He's like, "What are you doing here?" And most of the time, people – At the time people thought like, "Oh, he got kicked out of school," yadi-yada. At the time, I left school. I was like, "I can't be here anymore." And that was something that I was so scared to tell people, because talking about your mental health and depression, first of all, I had no idea what it meant at 19.
At the time, it was like where we are socially, being depressed was just, "Oh, you're sad." Wake up, you'll be fine the next day, right? And at some point, the day's compound. And you're not doing things. And certain things just don't go to get, "Oh, well."
And eventually, we talked. And he was just like, "Well, I've got this issue also." I was like, "What do you mean, Pete? You're a very personal guy." Peter's a very grateful – He's grateful. He always expresses his gratitude every single time I see him. And to hear him say that, I was so relieved. And I just like shared everything with him. And he was just like, "Oh, wow!" He's like, "I didn't know this." And then were days where I'd be like I don't feel like going to practice.
After that conversation, he would call me. Every day, I had to go practice. He'd call me, like, "How are you doing?" I'd be like, "Oh, I don't know. I don't know if I could practice today." But yadi-yada.
Because also, at the time, I had all these ideas. My last of year of juniors, and I was like, "Oh, I want to make the junior team." Prior to Summer Nationals that year, I was ranked 40th in juniors. Like, you saw somebody – Needs to be top four in the country to make a junior team. And that's Summer Nationals. I met all the division one and Junior. I jumped to 11th.
Either way, I also had no International experience in juniors. At that point, it was just like, "Dude, come on." Some people would be like, "Let's be real," yadi-yada. And I'd also never won a tournament. I never won an actual tournament individually. It's the whole idea of me doing this stuff at time. It was like you couldn't conceive that.
And then Peter, which is every day, he'd be like – But Peter would always be like, "Go to practice. go to practice. It's going to make you feel better." And I was like, "Ah, we'll see."
I go to practice and then I was like, "I'm not doing anything all day. Maybe I should just go to practice." But practices are like five o'clock. And I was like, "Okay. Well, let me get out of the house earlier." Sometimes I would go to practice from like three to ten o'clock. I'll go at three o'clock. I wouldn't get home around 10 o'clock. I was gone seven hours. Seven hours like three or four times a week.
[00:13:50] BW: That really became like a second home for you.
[00:13:54] KT: Yeah, it did.
[00:13:55] BW: What did you feel at the time that fencing was doing for you from a positive standpoint to help your own? We keep saying it again and again, mental health journey. It's almost become cliche at this point. But that's the way to describe it. What was fencing doing?
[00:14:15] KT: I love how mental health journey is now like the new hot phrase.
[00:14:19] BW: It is. It is.
[00:14:19] KT: I love it. I would say that it – Well, again, I grew up in the foundation at nine years – I was nine years old. I basically grew up in the foundation. A lot of my friends are from there. People like – friends turn to family. Also, I'm not super close with – My parents just split up. When I was a kid, my dad's side of my family is from California. I live in New Jersey. My mom's not really super close with her family. My family life, my cousins, uncles, yadi-yada, brothers, sisters. Kamali is my only sister. Foundation became like my serious family, my close family.
I'm also lucky that this close family has multiple people who have been to the Olympics and medalled the Olympics. I get to see people who have reached these heights in multiple phases and places in life that it helped.
Also, Peter makes all the coaches at the foundation speak. And we have to share – we're going to be very vulnerable with the kids to personable. We're not just like the Olympian, or the Olympians, World Championship team members, or national champions that are just here helping the kids out. We're actual people.
[00:15:37] BW: This is a conversation that's not about strategy on the script. It's more about you as Khalil.
[00:15:40] KT: No. It's about how to handle life, and how I handle life.
[00:15:43] BW: Got it. Okay.
[00:15:43] KT: Now, the hard part of this conversation was I had – this was October or November. This is October. I had just got diagnosed probably like four months before this, three or four months before this. I have no idea how I'm going to talk about this. I'm terrified. I'm terrified. The foundation started nine in the morning. I also have to lead the workout with the kids. I exercised with them and did footwork with them for an hour. I'm just like, "Oh."
And Peter called me like two days before. He said to talk about what you're dealing with now. I spoke to the kids and I said, "Hey, my name is Khalil for the kids who don't know me. I grew up in the foundation. I have anxiety and depression."
The thing is when I spoke, I spoke for about 15 minutes. It's supposed to be five. But I've spoken for 15 minutes, because there's also added questions and stuff like that. I've never spoken – I spoke over in front of about 150, maybe 200 people. I was petrified. But once I said it, it all came out. And I told them, I was like, "This is my life story. This is where I am. This is why I'm here. Some of you don't recognize me because I haven't been here a couple years because I was away at school."
And the kids were just asking me like, "Oh, how do you deal with this?" I was like, "I have no idea. This is all new to me. I'm just dealing with it day by day because that's the only way I can." The parents were like, "Well, how do you handle this? What should we do?"
It was a lot. But at the same time the kids were super happy. And some of the kids came up to me, like, "I had to deal with X, Y, Z. I deal with this." Now it changed. I stopped being little brother at that moment. And they look up to me and they're asking me questions and like trying to figure things out.
Some of the kids who came in during the week would see me that I'm there at the fencers’ club around like 2:30, 3:00 and I'm still working. I'm there hours and hours and hours. And they're like, "Oh, my gosh." For those training, let's talk to him.
[00:17:49] BW: This is what it takes. This is what it looks like, right?
[00:17:52] KT: Well, at the time, too, I still – At this time still, I hadn't – I still I hadn't won. I won my first NAC in November, November 2016 in juniors. That's the first time I won a tournament. At that time, it wasn't even – It was just like, "Oh, Khalil is just here working." And then I won the tournament and like, "Oh, wow! Khalil won this tournament." They're like, "How do you deal with this when you fence?" And I was just like, "I just focus on fencing at that point." I can't focus on where I am in my life. Why I'm taking it to pause and stuff like that. I was just like, "I have my goal. And I got fence."
[00:18:26] BW: At the time, people were asking you for your techniques, your coping strategies, whatever. And you were just still figuring those out for yourself. But in the years since, have you developed some strategies that you do like to share with younger fencers? Because let's be honest, the life of a fencer, especially someone in high school, right? Practice competition, rankings, qualifying for tournaments. And then add on top of that, grades, relationships, life, right? So, you can see why stress is a real issue. Have you identified some techniques that have worked for you that you do like to recommend to other fencers now?
[00:19:13] KT: I do. First, identify my triggers. Because I learned a lot of this in therapy. At that time, I was going through therapy. I had to learn what triggered me to feel anxious. And then the anxiety would lead to depression because I'm so fearful of like not being able to measure up to whatever scenario I'm making up in my head.
Instead of just taking on what's in front of me, which is exactly how – And Peter has this phrase, fencing is a lot like life. And sometimes he wants to make Olympians. But he also wants to make an Olympian in life. It took me years to understand what that meant. Because as a kid, you don't experience life. You don't know. And now that I'm older, I get it because you have everyday things. You can't never run away from your problems. They're always going to be there.
As a fencer, if I have a problem, sometimes can be like, "I'll deal with this when I come back from a tournament." But I can fly halfway around the world, do bad at a tournament. I feel terrible about that. And I still got to come home so whatever is at home. Now I got two things that's going to be on my mind.
First, identify the triggers, right? What situations are you in? And how are you reacting to it? Then, what is it about that situation that you can't adjust to it, right? And you got to break things down just to this tiniest little thing. Because sometimes, in fence – I'm going to put this in for fencing at least. It should be like, "I just want to win this tournament. I want to win this tournament. But I can't make it past this one round," which is really funny. I had the biggest block making it past the 32 at the NAC. Because, for a while – Because you make a NAC. And you go to a NAC, and you make top 32, you get points. Boom!
But then you like think about it. You're like, "Okay. Well, what if –" You're like, "Okay. Well, that's bare minimum." What about top 16? Because I know you get to use the video strips. Okay. Well, now you're one round short of getting a medal. Oh, okay. All right. Well, now I want to make top eight. Okay, now you have a metal. But about winning?" What about winning? You know what I mean?
And you recognize that you yourself are placing these barriers in front of you that are stopping you from getting the levels you want to get to. Get to the level you want to get to. And for me, I used to have a crazy barriers. I used to have a hard time making it pass 32.
[00:21:40] BW: Because that was your finish line, in a sense, right? You're thinking of that as your finish line?
[00:21:45] KT: Yeah. When I was a kid, yeah, exactly. Because I didn't have that much national experience. And then sometimes I want to get top eight. But then I was like, "Oh, I have a medal. I have a medal." And then I would lose, and I'd be like, "Well, this isn't –" I'm happy I have it. But like I feel like I could have still kept fencing. But these are major humps that you just got to get over. And I had to realize too that it takes time. It's process. And it doesn't happen within one day. It's not going to happen one tournament. And then the next tournament, boom! Sometimes you're going to make it, you're going to make it past it and then you're going to fall right back down.
It's incremental. You'll make two steps forward to make a step back. Two steps forward, you'll make a step back. You'll make three steps forward, you make two steps back sometimes. All right. And then sometimes, boom! You just keep making more steps forward. But it's all an incremental process that I had to learn.
Another skill I learned was I woke up, I was like, "Let me add all my small wins up." Small win. I had to take every small win. Because there was a point where I was like I couldn't get out of bed. I was so – I'd be so depressed that I couldn't get out of bed. And I would literally like – I would fall asleep at like 12 o'clock. I'm getting out of bed at 1pm. Kind of like, "Oh, crap. I got to go practice."
[00:22:59] BW: When you say adding up those small wins, were you like writing them down somewhere? Just going through a mental checklist in your mind? What did that look like?
[00:23:04] KT: Yeah, I started writing. I started writing in a notebook. I wasn't consistent with it. It took me a very long time to become consistent with it. But I was writing things out in a notebook. Or I would eventually try and find a place, or in my phone at the time. Now I have like a concrete notebook I write things in. I would look at it as like, "Okay. Well, let's take three things I want to be proud of doing today that I didn't do the day before."
I would say I would wake up at one. I woke up at 11 today. I was able to eat breakfast. I spoke to a friend. Because at the time, all of my friends were still in college, at State College, and I was just like, "Ugh!" My best friend lived around the corner. For me, I was like, "Okay, I spent time at my best friend's house." And I slowly developed these new habits where I was like, "Okay, now I made it out the house, yadi-yada." "Okay, I did actually X amount of practice. I worked out today. Boom!" "Okay, cool. I did this one at a competition." It all added up because these little things was me also building these habits that eventually that like I can be proud of that gave me confidence. Eventually, that all led to like me having confidence in fencing, but also me having confidence where I was like, "I spoke to this person at school. I spoke to this person at my new school. I did X, Y, Z when I started going back to class. I felt happy." And I was just like – I was very happy. I started becoming happier with what I was doing. Because I couldn't fence in the mood I was in, or the mental thing I was in. I couldn't fence at the level I wanted to. And eventually, I was able to add it up to bigger goals.
And I still do small goals. I still do them every day. Now I do like I text. I send gratitude messages. I also saw myself, I try and text two people every day. Tell them, express my gratitude for them in my life. I try to at least have some time outside and enjoy being outside for a little bit. And then I just find like some peace where I can have some peace of mind in the day.
[00:25:13] BW: A lot of what you described was you kind of lifting yourself out of this depression and finding that inner strength. It makes me wonder, like, if someone has a loved one in their life who might be dealing with this, what can that, let's call them an ally, do to maybe help the person that they've identified is struggling with anxiety or depression? Because it shouldn't just be like all on the individual who's struggling with those experiences. There's other people in life that can help them out.
[00:25:50] KT: I think the one thing is you recognize how it affects not just you, but it affects your family as well. Because you don't know. Sometimes some people's impression get so bad that they just go to places that it's really hard for them to come back from. The best thing you can do is just be there to hear them out.
I think one thing Kamali would ask – Kamali would check in on me, too, actually. She's like, "How are you feeling?" And I'm just like, "I don't know." And she's like, "Well, what do you mean you don't know?" Because that's like a concept or someone. It's a tough concept for someone to not identify or recognize how they're feeling. Because someday it could be like – At the time I would just be like some days sometimes I'm really sad, and some days I just don't feel anything. And she's like, "Well, how are you not feel anything?" I was like, "There's no –" I was like, "You're just not motivated." It's like it's a bit I'm not motivated. But also, just like I don't – Yeah, I'm sometimes not motivated. I was like I just didn't see the point in doing things. There was nothing to work towards. There was nothing to – I didn't feel like I had anything to be happy about, stuff like that.
I would say, although I'm very happy with where I am in my life right now, I could not have done it by myself. Because I was not equipped with the skill. I'm very happy with my family and the foundation for being there for me, to help me and support me with that.
[00:27:11] BW: Yeah, that's awesome that you have that support system.
[00:27:14] KT: As someone who's witnessing it from a third-person perspective, you can guide people. But you can never force somebody to do something. Especially if they're not in this mental space. All you can do is just guide them along a better part of a better path. And you get to be there to listen to them. Don't tell them what to do, because like sometimes people just need to be able to get things off their chest and off their mind. And maybe they need to hear – Either they need to write it down or they need someone to hear them out and hear what's just on their mind. It takes time. Because not everyone is very capable of opening up so easily. It takes some time. And it takes a lot of patience.
I'm one of those people, to be honest. It takes time for me to open up to people. Me being open about my mental health wasn't because I wanted. It's not because I wanted to do it. It's like I want to be this person to help other people at the time. And I would love to I would love to help people now. I'd love to.
But at the time, I did it because I kept getting asked questions. And people were saying, "Oh, I heard it because this happened to you. This –" blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, "Okay." It kind of got to me. I was like I'm tired. I don't want anyone to like say these things about me without even knowing why I'm not in school.
The whole question was why wasn't I in school? And eventually it was supposed to be, "Hey, I'm not going to be back until January. Hey, guys, I won't be back until January." "Hey, guys, I won't be back until next fall." And I was like I'm just not coming back. It was like, "Oh." I told them. I just like wrote an Instagram post about it. And I said, "This is what I've been dealing with. I was not equipped to be in school." I think it's like the one Instagram post that I have from that time period. Because normally, some Instagram posts I'll save. This one I think is the only one that I've had from 2017. Yeah, it's like the only one I still have up.
And I spoke, and I said – It was a really tough year. And from the outside perspective it was like, "Well, Khalil is not at school. But he finished fifth in juniors in the junior ranking." I finished fifth. I won national. I was a national champion. And I won a NAC. And I won a junior Pan Am. It's like, "Oh, well, he's having a great year." And I'm like, "It's not really that." I was very happy about it. And honestly, I'm really grateful for what I did in that time period because it gave me confidence following the next season. And that was a tough season. But I was very grateful for that. But at home, I'm still dealing with other issues.
And because of that, and hearing these things, I was like, "I'm just going to get this all out. I'm going to write about it." I just won a national title and I'm like I'm still dealing with this. On another level, I was super happy about it. This time I was like, "Yo, you know what? Let me write about this so I can talk about it." And I was shocked. And I told them, when I did it, the reception was way better than I thought it would be. People would come to me, "Hey, my family member's dealing with this." "Hey, I've dealt with this. You're not the only person." And like that also, again, seeing more people having to deal with it made me more comfortable, more open to talking about it.
[00:30:33] BW: Yeah, it was kind of a situation that you were fortunate to because people didn't understand what was going on. And in the end, it seemed like it was a healthy and beneficial thing. Can we jump forward from that post in 2017, to 2020, and then later, 2021, going to the Olympics. What was – I mean, if you were to be able to tell that version of yourself in 2017 that you're going to be making the Olympic team, what was that like for you to be able to qualify?
[00:31:08] KT: Well, first, I would I would tell my 2017 self. I wouldn't tell him. I would not tell him. Just because – No. Because I would have to learn. Because I will say, I'm happy that, during that time period, I learned not to go through emotions. I was actively like I was actively working towards stuff. Okay, I work towards making a J team. I didn't make the team, whatever. Worked with getting back in school. I did. Very happy about that. Worked towards making a senior team. I had never been to a senior – I think I've been to a Senior World Cup a couple times before that. And there were times where I wasn't – So, they'd have the email. 12th. There were a couple times they'd have the 12th. I was like last first. Didn't make the cut. I was like sitting there. I'm like, "Oh, my God." Well, I'm at home training. That's why.
But then like 2018-2019 season came. Second place. That hump. I had a mental hump where I was like, "Ah! I got to make it past 32." And then I was losing a match. I won a match 15-14. Made it to 16. I just fenced, fenced. I got to second. I lost a Daryl in the final. That was my first ever. Won a final. And it was very second. Then I got second the next tournament. I made the team at the end of that season.
I had more confidence. I was, "Wow! I can kind of really do this? I can actually make an Olympic team?" I could make an Olympic team. That next following season, I lost in the 32 in the first NAC. I lost in the 32 of the first NAC. It was just like up and down season.
[00:32:48] BW: It's just what you're talking about, the ups and downs. And like if you look at it from just a one tournament at a time, then you're really not seeing the full picture. You really do have to zoom out and see the trajectory of an entire career, right?
[00:33:00] KT: Yeah. And I was just so up and down, up and down. Like, 32, third next – No. 32. Then the next World Cup, I didn't make the second. I lost to make the second day. I didn't make the top 64. Next one after that, I get third at a NAC. Next one after that, losing the 32 again. A week later, I make the 16. It just so many up and down tournaments. So many up and down results. Because it's like a nerve-wracking experience. But I was like the one thing that made me happy was like my sister, and I, Daryl, going through all of this. Again, I had so much. And Peter, also, my family. I had so much support. And they're like I'm not going through emotions.
COVID happens. That was its own beast. That was its own beast.
[00:33:47] BW: Talk about a roller coaster, right? Y'all ready to go.
[00:33:51] KT: At that time, I hadn't been – that was my first time – it was the longest time I had been home since I moved back from school. I had been home, stuff like that. But I was always on the road for competitions. That was the first time I was at home for about almost a year. I was home. I was home for almost a year. That was it. It was interesting, not fencing, all that. Getting back to the training and stuff like that.
So when we were allowed to train again, again, I didn't have that going to – I almost fell back into that going in through the motions phase. And when we first were told lockdown, I was just like, "Oh, man!" I felt the same way I did years prior when I had come back home. I was like, "I don't have anything to do." Because I had taken time off from school to train. So, I could put forth all my attention to that. I'm like, "Well, I can't fence right now. I'm not in school. I'm just going through motions."
But I was like, "Let me take this time to actually like build –" Maybe let me use the same skills I had again and just build up from there. It'd be like I'd be doing footwork at home. We're doing Zoom for classes. Those are fun. I was doing footwork. Working out. Doing things I never did. Connecting with friends, stuff like that. Connecting with family, the same thing everyone else was doing. And again, wasn't the only person going through it. Everyone's lives were just halted. And I came to a very hard stop.
And then once things got back on the road, got back, I had to get back on the road. And that last tournament to make the team, it was May 2021. That one I think – I had prepared so hard for it. And I was just very focused that day. And, yeah, that's it.
[00:35:58] BW: And when do you realize that you did it? Is it once you reached a certain round, you knew it was confirmed? Or did it happen later on?
[00:36:06] KT: Because of the up and down part of that season. It was the up and down of that season. All I said was, "I need to win this tournament." In my head I was just like, "I don't like how points get." Where like this person made it by x amount of points and yadi-yada, and stuff like that. I told myself. I was like, "I need to win this tournament."
[00:36:29] BW: It goes back to what you were saying. Let's not just eek in. Let's –
[00:36:33] KT: I said I need to win this tournament. And again, I had never won a NAC and senior. At this point in senior, I'd never won a NAC. I think I'd come in second a couple times. I've made it, but I was like I've never done it. And I was like, "I could do it. So let me just work towards it."
Apparently, I made it when I made the top – when I won to make the top four. I didn't know. Because, again, I try not to get too much into the math of making points and stuff like that. I just saw that one person lost. Because there were three of us that could have contended for the spot. One person lost in the top eight. And when I saw they lost, I was like – And the next person I had to fence was the other person contending for the team. In my head, I'm just like – All day, I was just like, "Guys, let me focus. Leave me alone. Let me just fence." Right?
And when that match came, it was funny because there were like other events going on. And we were the last semi-final also. We fenced. And I won the match. And I was like – And the person who – the other person who I had to fence in the finals wasn't going to make the team. I won my semi-final match and I was just like – I was happy, grateful. And I was like, "I did it. I made the team. I found out I made the team before that match. But that's one of the things and the reason why I said I wouldn't tell it to my younger self that everything was going to be fine is. Because if I went into that match knowing I would have made the team, I wouldn't have fenced the way I did.
[00:38:11] BW: Sure. Yeah. You need that push almost.
[00:38:14] KT: I just need that extra push, like, "Hey, I have to really dig in and lock in to make this – to do something to make this team." I did it and I was really happy and I won the tournament. Well, when I won the tournament, I already made the team. And why I said this, because I felt, after I made the team, after I knew I made it, definitely, there was like a drop a little bit in my fencing. And I'd like bring it back up. I was just like –
[00:38:35] BW: Interesting.
[00:38:36] KT: Yeah, there was. Because your mind's going to be like, "Well –" Again, you place those barriers, "All right. Well, I did it. That's it." Well, I still got to fence the tournament.
[00:38:47] BW: Right. It's impossible to forget that, right? You couldn't just say, "Okay, I'm going to put that out of head. I'm an Olympian now. But I'm going to forget about that." Yeah, totally. I can't even imagine the mental game that you have to play with yourself at that point.
Finally, you've talked in this conversation about some of your Inspirations, like Peter Westbrook and Daryl Homer. And I know you've also cited Keith Smart. Now when you walk around a NAC, when you walk around fencers in the Peter Westbrook Foundation, you are the inspiration. What do you hope a young fencer sees when they look at you?
[00:39:24] KT: I know the sport we're in and like some of the barriers people have to face. One, no matter what you do, your work is going to get noticed at some point. You have a shot. like I would say that sometimes that you don't have – sometimes our biggest barriers is in competitions. Because in fencing, there's a lot of things that are – And in sports. There's just a lot of things that aren't in our control. But there's so much – we actually have a lot more control than we think we do. And we don't focus on it. I would love for us to like, "Hey, let's only focus on the things we can control."
I can control how I start. I can control how I want to score the touch. I can control how I react to some things. I can't control what the ref calls unless I make it very clear. I can't control what they know. I can't control what my opponent's going to – My opponent is also their own entity. They have to focus on these things as well. Competition starts late, whatever.
Now, take this out of fencing. Let's put ourselves in life outside of fencing. There are things that. We can control and control how we interact with people. How we treat people. How the work we do. The positive and good habits we build ourselves, we control that.
Other people – there's nothing else to – don't focus on other people. And that was another thing I told myself. This person made X amount of teams at this age. This person has been at this top eight. This person is going to this school. This person's going to this school. Honestly, you have to learn – Yeah, swim your own race. I know we fence. But we got to swim our own races.
[00:40:57] BW: Yeah, yeah.
[00:40:57] KT: You got to put blinders on, because at some point what people do at some – Everyone's journey is different. Some people just shoot. Some people shoot up early. And then some people crash hard. Some people just don't shoot up at all. And then all of a sudden it clicks and they go, right? Some people, they just go, and it's a roller coaster. There's no straight path. You're going to have hurdles. You're going to have potholes. You're going to have sinkholes. You're going to have mountains to climb. That's how I see it really.
Everything is so different. You have to take it on what you see. And when people see me, they'd be like, "Wow! He really –" I don't want to be like, "Oh, that's Khalid Thompson." Like, all right. Because, frankly, fencing is a sport where people are like, "Man, that's Khalil. Whatever." Like, I don't care. I don't care. If you see me, it'd be like, “Yo.” I would love if a kid sees me and they'd see like that's somebody who went through a crazy – a mental issues, mental struggle. Not issues. Sorry. I try not to use that word issues. A kid who's going through mental struggles and was able to overcome it. And want it to be more personable than just being Khalil the Olympian. I I would love it to be like, "Oh, there are things that I've done in my life outside of fencing that you guys can do too."
[00:42:29] BW: Yeah, there's an entire story. And I'm just grateful that you were able to share a piece of that with us today. And Khalil Thompson, thanks so much for joining us. We'll definitely be rooting for you this season and beyond. Thank you so much.
[00:42:42] KT: Thank you for having me very much.
[OUTRO]
[00:42:44] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And if you like this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or a review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell. And I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
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