Two DC Fencers Club veterans, two kidney donations three months apart, two comebacks already rolling. Ken Gauvey donated to his brother; Michael Hughes donated anonymously. They share why they did it, what recovery actually felt like, how they’re rebuilding their fencing, and what’s changed in their perspective. We also talk vet-community culture, mindfulness, listening to your body, and practical first steps if you’re curious about living donation.
Season 2, Episode 16
Guests: Ken Gauvey — Attorney; Vet épée fencer (DC Fencers Club)
Michael Hughes — Lifelong fencer, teacher & coach; Vet épée fencer (DC Fencers Club)
What we cover
Origin stories: late start (Ken) vs. 50 years in the sport (Michael) — and discovering the Vet community
Why donate? Ken’s family emergency; Michael’s NPR drive-time moment and the “why not me?” mindset
Expectation vs. reality: testing, surgery, different recovery timelines — and the role of baseline fitness
Returning to fencing: “listen to your body,” track metrics, celebrate small wins, and rebuild with intention
Mindfulness & reset: pre-bout rituals, visualization, practicing resets at practice, staying present
DCFC culture: coaches who coach the whole person, morning vet sessions, multigenerational mentorship
Living donation 101: anonymity choices, chains that unlock multiple transplants, practical benefits & follow-up
Practical takeaways
Comeback advice (Ken): listen to your body; rest is training; track sleep/HR/recovery; don’t rush the timeline you wish you had
Mindset (Michael): be present — in conversations, in practice, in each touch; practice your reset like any other skill
Vet community tip: find or build training windows that fit real life (e.g., DCFC’s morning sessions)
If you’re curious about donation
Start with a reputable org (e.g., National Kidney Foundation) or your local transplant center
Understand match/chain programs: one donation can trigger many transplants
Expect thorough screening and ongoing medical follow-up after donation
Timestamps
0:00 — Two donors, one club; two comebacks
1:09 — Ken: from martial arts dad to vet épée podiums
2:15 — Michael: 50 years in the sport; discovering Vet fencing
3:57 — Ken’s decision: a family emergency and a fast timeline
5:28 — Michael’s decision: NPR, stats, and “why not me?”
8:44 — Expectation vs. reality: surgery, testing, recovery
10:43 — Getting back on strip: timelines, protection, green/red lights
15:05 — First tournament back: Ken’s Southern silver & what it meant
16:35 — Mindfulness and the reset habit (practice it at practice)
19:18 — Visualization under a tree (and in a parking lot)
20:05 — What makes DCFC special: coaches, mornings, mentorship
22:58 — Cincinnati NAC: the full-circle moment
24:29 — Advice for any comeback: rest vs. stubbornness; joy vs. pressure
27:40 — Donation info: practical benefits, chains, where to start
Quotable
“Fencing teaches you how to live a life. Be present in the moment.” — Michael Hughes
“I wasn’t hitting anybody, so I visualized hitting people.” — Ken Gauvey
Call to action
Share this episode with a vet fencer—or a friend curious about living donation. If you’re considering donating, talk to your medical team and visit a trusted resource (e.g., the National Kidney Foundation) to learn more.
Credits
Host: Bryan Wendell • Guests: Ken Gauvey & Michael Hughes
SEASON 2, EPISODE 16
[0:00:01] BW: Two vet fencers at the same club. Two kidneys donated within three months. Two comebacks already underway. I'm Bryan Wendell, and this is First to 15. And today we've got not one but two guests. We've got Ken Gauvey and Michael Hughes. They fence at DC Fencers Club. Ken is an attorney who started fencing in his 50s. He's podiumed in vet 50. And then he stepped away to donate a kidney to his brother. And he's back training with an eye on the vet team and has already had some success. And has also circled his date for returning to national competition. Michael has been in the sport for almost his entire life as an athlete, a teacher, and a coach. And in August 2024, he became a living donor, giving a kidney anonymously.
So, in this episode, we're going to talk about why they chose to donate, what the recovery has looked like, how they're rebuilding, and now getting back to fencing with the same competitive fire and maybe a new perspective. So, obviously, in this episode, Ken and Michael are going to share their personal experiences. And if you're considering becoming a living donor, we encourage you to do so. Just consult your medical team for guidance specific to you. So, let's dive in. Hey, Ken and Michael, thanks for joining.
[0:01:07] MH: Thanks for having us.
[0:01:08] KG: Great to be here.
[0:01:09] BW: Thank you both so much. So, Ken, you started fencing kind of later in life, right? And you found some quick success at DCFC, DC Fencers Club. And then you hit pause to donate to your brother, like we said in the intro. So, let's first start by talking about kind of your journey into fencing.
[0:01:27] KG: You know, I did like martial arts for a long time, and hurt my shoulder, and I wanted to keep some physical activity, and my son was looking for a sport. So, picked up on fencing and he loved it immediately, but he loved saber. So, I love watching him. And I tried to coach him a bit. And it was great. But when my daughter started fencing 12 years later, she wanted to do épée, and that's when I was able to jump in with both feet.
[0:01:49] BW: You saw épée and said, "Okay, maybe that one's something I can do, too." Which is unlike a lot of sports. I mean, I watch my kids play soccer and I'm not going out there and joining them or doing a soccer team. That's one thing I love about fencing is that opportunity. And Michael, you've been around fencing for a lot longer, actually. What was your journey into the sport, and how has fencing helped shape your life so far?
[0:02:15] MH: I started 50 years ago this fall at a community college. So I never fenced on a college team. I was always a club fencer in the American Fencing League of America, or Amateur Fencing League of America. I started fencing eventually in the Philadelphia area at [inaudible 0:02:34. And at a Bucks County Halloween party, I met my wife, my future wife. I met my wife through fencing. And I followed her after fencing in France for a year. I followed her to Washington, DC, where we got married. I got a job teaching English at a school where I could also coach fencing. So I coached fencing for 25 years.
During that time, my wife and I stopped fencing because we had children and we were very busy. But when we came back, we discovered that there was this new thing called veteran fencing, which allowed us to fence against people in our own age category. That's been very exciting. My wife won a gold medal just last week up in Philadelphia, and I was ninth. So, I get a lot of pleasure. And I have so many friends that I knew way back then, all around the country. And I'm reconnecting with them constantly and making new friends.
[0:03:34] BW: I love that about fencing, especially the vet community. So, Ken, you found this success in vet fencing and then you hit pause to donate your kidney to your brother. Was there a moment when you were like, "I'm definitely doing this?" Tell me about the mental process because this is no small thing, even when we're talking about someone that you grew up with and share parents with.
[0:03:57] KG: So I had a friend that donated a kidney a long time ago, maybe 10 years ago. I thought that was a pretty good idea. And I actually started looking into being an anonymous donor. Right after I made the phone call, my brother sends out this text message saying, "Hey, by the way, I have some kidney problems that they just discovered." So I put everything on that front on hold just in case he might need it eventually.
After, we had a family tragedy. And a week later, he said, "When it rains, it pours." He sent out a text message and he said, "Look, I got three months left." So, at that point, it wasn't even a question. I just have to kind of jump in and do it. Fortunately, I was a very solid match. The could they had. Better than they expected, they said.
[0:04:39] BW: Is that typical for siblings or is it no guarantee that your sibling is going to be a match?
[0:04:44] KG: There's no guarantee. I mean, there's a range of match. I mean, it could be a low quality, a no match, a low quality up to a high quality match. And those aren't terms that they gave me. That's just the way I think of it. Turned out I was like the highest you could get with them.
[0:05:01] BW: Very fortunate. Yeah.
[0:05:01] KG: I don't know how long Michael's process took. But with daily phone calls and constantly traveling out to my brother in Ohio, I turned this entire process into about two and a half months um, to get it done as quickly as possible.
[0:05:15] BW: And Michael, you were an anonymous donor. And how did you make that decision? How did you first even consider becoming a living donor and decide to ultimately go through with it?
[0:05:28] MH: Well, like today, my wife and I are traveling out to Illinois to visit our grandchildren. We were listening to NPR, to a podcast, and they were discussing kidney donation. And I found out that there's 12 people who die in the United States every day for lack of a kidney, a needed donation. And I listened to the program and they were talking about the process. And it's like, "Wow, I'm in my 60s, I'm in excellent health, thanks to fencing." And so I said, "Well, why not me?"
I've checked into the process. And I live in Washington, DC. About four miles from George Washington University Hospital, which is a premier spot to donate your kidney. Highly recommend it. And so the process began, but it took longer for me because they do a tremendous check out of you. MRIs, electrocardiogram, stress test. And during the stress test, they found out that I had an enlarged ascending aorta. And it's of course like, "Oh, well, wait. We want to look into this before we want –" because they won't let you donate unless you're in very good condition."
And it turns out that my aorta had become enlarged from fencing. And it's actually a good thing. It's an adaptation of the body to physical exercise. I have a very low heart rate. It doesn't go very high even when I fence. So, it's very efficient. And so, fencing has been very, very good to me.
[0:07:07] BW: I love that. So, okay. So, how did you two find out that each other had donated kidneys? Because you're both at DCFC, right? So, Ken, when did you make that realization that there were actually not one but two of you? Because that is what put it on the radar of our podcast when I heard that there was two stories here.
[0:07:27] KG: Well, I was making plans, and I started talking to the coaches. I was like, "You know, look, I'm probably going to be out for 6 months," because I had some successive fencing and I was just kind of letting the coaches know that I was going to have to take a break. By the way, six months was an understatement. And they said, "Oh yeah, Michael just did that. Or Michael's getting ready to do that." And I was like, "Of course, if anybody in the club is going to be doing that, it's going to be Michael." It was a a great realization. I was able to talk to him about it. He's been very helpful.
[0:07:54] BW: Michael, what do you remember from those conversations?
[0:07:56] MH: Well, I might have been misleading because I had a great experience. I had a very quick recovery. 10 days out, my body had returned pretty much to normal. Six weeks out, I was allowed to do a complete workout. And within a few weeks, I felt like I'd never left. And I've not had any problems since then. It's not uncommon if you donate your kidneys for your blood pressure to go up a bit. They told me that ahead of time. And I started out on three different medications. I'm down to one. And I'll be off of that one probably within the next year. Besides a couple – well, three very small scars, I really don't feel anything differently today.
[0:08:40] BW: That's terrific.
[0:08:41] MH: It is. It is.
[0:08:44] BW: So, let's talk about expectation versus reality for you, Ken. What did you expect about the actual process of having the surgery, and how it actually felt the day of and immediately after?
[0:08:58] KG: Well, you know, mine happened so quickly. I didn't really have a chance to talk – and it happened in Cincinnati. So, I had to go there to talk to the doctors. And I had to go there from Baltimore.
[0:09:09] BW: And Cincinnati will play a role in our conversation a little bit later. So, just flagging that for everybody. Please continue.
[0:09:15] KG: So, because mine was so fast, we got all my testing done in 3 days as opposed to multiple weeks or months. My expectations, I went there and I talked to a nutritionist and they're like, "Oh, you'll be back moving around again in about two months." I was like, "Okay, great." I said, "What can I work out?" "Well, when you feel like it." Okay, for me, anybody tells me to work out when you feel like it is not a good recipe for success because I'm going to jump in with both feet and I'm not going to pull back until I can't go any further.
[0:09:44] BW: Sounds like a fencer. Yes. Yes.
[0:09:47] KG: Yeah. So, the nutritionist was telling me some things that were just slightly off from my nutritionist. I have my own nutritionist who's gone through kidney studies and things. So I thought I'd be back in 8 to 10 weeks. Well, I could be in the office in 8 to 10 weeks, but I couldn't run or fence. And I'm only just now, 10 months later, starting to lift weights again.
So, my reality was very different than Michael's. He had a lifetime of fencing behind him, the lucky guy. I had 14 months before I actually started going down this process. His body had certainly adapted. And bless him for it. Mine had not had that opportunity yet. So, it took me a lot longer to recover.
[0:10:27] BW: Yeah. Michael, when were you actually back out there fencing? Because I imagine if you tell a doctor that you're ready to go back to having someone like poke you with a épée or something, you might say, "Well, maybe wait a little bit longer." When were you able to get back to fencing?
[0:10:43] MH: Well, we did a lot of conversations with the surgeons and my general practitioner about that. They felt that because the kidney was removed on my left side, and I'm a right-handed fencer – besides the plastron, the underarm protector, and the jacket, I also wear one of those plastic chest protectors. I rarely get any bruises. I wear a suppression sleeve on my right arm under the jacket. So, I don't even get bruised very often, unlike when I was younger. So, I wasn't really in any kind of risk. There was no risk factor than any fencer would face. There's not an issue there.
[0:11:25] BW: Ken, let's shift gears a little bit to the process of the donation, from testing, and surgery, and the support. I'm most interested in this question about the support that you received from friends and family. Obviously, also the reaction from your brother. And then how about from the DCFC family when you did tell them, "Hey, I know I've only been here for a year and change at this point, but peace out. You're going to see me again a little bit later."
[0:11:57] KG: You ask for support. I had to spend a couple weeks in Ohio as for my follow-up visit, which is it was only a couple weeks before Christmas I did this. It's December 9th. My father and my brother, my other brother, and my sister-in-law took excellent care of me. I mean, they sat with me all day long every day. And I slept a good portion of it. And so, they took great care of me. I went to the follow-up visit, and then I drove home 8 hours, which was probably the most painful trip I've ever made in my life. I should not have driven it, but I wanted to get home for Christmas. This was like Christmas Eve. So, that was probably not a great decision. But again, jumped in with both feet and just did the whole trek in one day.
And when I got home, my wife and kids were just amazing. I mean, they're incredible people in general, but just the amount of help and support they gave me. Not being upset when I couldn't walk the dogs, that was just really, really fantastic. And then everybody. I mean, DCFC is just the most impressive group of vet fencers on the face of the planet that I could even possibly imagine. Everybody is there, is supportive. You talk to them and they're' – it's not like you're talking at them, but they always have response, and they're always very supportive and very helpful. I mean, my very first tournament, I managed to do pretty well and got my B. But the DCFC fencers who got out before me sat around for three hours up in Pennsylvania and waited for me.
[0:13:24] BW: That's cool. Yeah, I think that's so unique to vet fencing. I mean, we see a lot of support from club mates at all levels, but the vets just take it to another level, I will say.
[0:13:34] KG: Oh gosh. And it was Michael and his wife who were there who waited for me. And they have places to go.
[0:13:38] BW: Oh, awesome.
[0:13:38] KG: So, I mean, this is such a great group. I mean, I had no question that I would be able to come back with their help after all this is done.
[0:13:47] BW: Michael, can we talk about your choice to be anonymous to the recipient? And as someone who doesn't know about this process very well, I'd love to know, would you have a choice to say, "The recipient can find out my name and contact info once that happens?" Or, "No, I don't want that." What is that process like, please?
[0:14:06] MH: That's true. I decided to be anonymous. Normally, you do give your name and you can offer if the person who receives it wants to contact you that they may. Or you can find out who they are and just leave yourself anonymous. But I just felt it was better to have no strings attached. I didn't do it to get thanks from anybody. I just wanted to do it because I would hope somebody would do it for me.
[0:14:35] BW: And that's just putting so much good karma out into the role of both of y'all. I really love that. So, Ken, getting back into training. And before we started recording, you said that you just had your first competition actually as well, right? So you're back out there competitively. What do you remember about that first session? Any red lights or green lights that you experienced on this strip telling you I'm ready for more or I need to pull back in this training session?
[0:15:05] KG: Well, I've been trying to get back. Every two months, I try to get on the strip. And then two months and a week, I try tried to get back on the strip. And two months and three weeks, I try to get back – and my body just wasn't ready. It wasn't cooperating. It was finally about nine months after the surgery, eight or nine months, that I was finally able to actually start fencing. I couldn't lift weights. I couldn't run. I couldn't do anything else. But fencing, I could do. I could not bounce up and down and just go forward and backward on the strip and extend, advance, and recover. And I was able to do that.
So, two months after that, I had my first tournament in almost – I guess it's been 19 months. At the Southern down in Myrtle Beach. And I had silver in the vet group. So, I was very, very happy with how that turned out. My practices have been going well. My heart rate is starting to even out again.
Michael talked about blood pressure. My blood pressure was the first thing that returned to normal. My body didn't return to normal, but my my blood pressure did. That was great for me. Reverse for him, I guess. It was being able to compete again reminded me how much I just love being on the strip and doing this. And I couldn't wait to get back to practice. I can't wait to get back to the next tournament. And just really excited about the whole thing.
[0:16:22] BW: How about you, Michael? What was it like when you actually finally got out there and got into that competitive spirit again? Something that you had been doing for 50 years and then had to take a little break from.
[0:16:35] MH: Well, I had the pleasure of going to a clinic with Kat Holmes and Corwin Duncan. And they talked about mindfulness and how to reset. And in a bout, you have to reset when things are going poorly. And the trick is, is to practice this at practice. Practice ritually preparing for the bout, but also for when things don't go well. And so, witnessing what Ken's been going through, he's had to reset several times recently. But you can you can count on him to come back in a few days. And there he is again. If he has a setback, he has a process. Monitoring his body, giving it rest, coming back slowly. And he's been persistent. And look at him. He's already getting in the medals again.
Fencing teaches you how to live a life. And one of the things our coaches are always telling me is uh to get out of my own head. You're not just fencing yourself. You're not just controlling yourself. You have to see that the other person has a vote, that they are making choices just like you are. And if you're not paying attention and fencing the person in front of you, you're missing out on half of the sport.
As Ken was saying, the great thing about fencing is the community that we're in. All of these vet fencers are people that have chosen to be there. They're not trying to get to college. They're not trying to get to the Olympics. They're there because they choose to be in relationship with other fencers. And it's really a wonderful thing. You'll notice that even the people who don't win a lot of bouts in the tournaments are very happy people. So, it's nice. It's a great place.
[0:18:31] BW: I love that. The motivations are definitely different. And you could say, in some cases, healthier at the vet level for why people are there. Can I get your reaction to what Michael was saying about the mindfulness? Does that play a part in not just your recovery but also your fencing now?
[0:18:48] KG: It's actually a real key component to my training. I have this park about two blocks down, and I have this zabuton, this Zen meditation pillow. And I just go out in the park three or four days a week, and I'll sit there and I'll just practice mindfulness for 20 minutes at a pop. And before tournaments, I'm out in the parking lot, wherever I can find a tree, sitting under. I'll be doing that at a tournament with music going on. And just being able to visualize what's going to happen next. And it's a key component to not only training, but certainly competition. I use it religiously.
[0:19:18] BW: I love that. Yeah. And I imagine that's something you could even use before your body was totally ready to be back out there, too, right?
[0:19:25] KG: Yeah, I had to. I wasn't hitting anybody. I had to visualize hitting people.
[0:19:29] BW: Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Michael, I would love to hear your viewpoint on the DCFC community and what it has represented to both of you throughout this process. And also, why it is so successful in creating this community of vet fencers. Because there's a lot of great clubs that have a vet presence. But DCFC is got to be right there near the top as far as prominence, success, and also just the amount of love that I hear from people who represent the club. They're very proud members of DC Fencer's club.
[0:20:05] MH: Well, first of all, the coaches, Janusz Smolenski, David Ruskin, and Byron Neslund. They are very warm, friendly people. And they have a philosophy of coaching that's about personal development. The whole fencer. And at the club, there's people from I would say 8 years old up to 87 currently. We have two fencers that are 87. Cass Camp and Jim Adams. And very successful.
And what you see at the club, Jim Adams, I was fencing him the other day. He's a few years older than me. When he was done, he gave me critique and he also apologized if he was coming on too strong. But he was just trying to give me good advice to make me a better fencer. And that's terrific. And we get these young fencers coming in. And what's really great for those of us who are veterans is that we can beat them when they first show up.
[0:21:13] KG: We can them a lesson.
[0:21:15] MH: Yes. And we can mentor them. And we take great pride into being able to say, "Oh, Olympian, Kat Holmes, or another, I used to beat her when she was 12 years old."
[0:21:27] BW: I love that. Yeah.
[0:21:29] MH: There's a real joy in that. But we also have a special thing going on for your listeners. Durding COVID, when vaccines were only available to older people, they opened up the club in the mornings. And that has continued. Twice a week at DCFC, veterans can show up. And if you're in town, people, even if you're not a veteran, you can show up. Sometimes we have Olympians show up, people who are on business trips, people that are still working that are on furlough right now. We have a robust group of people fencing in the mornings. And they come back in the evenings. Imagine that. I get to fence five times a week, right? And sometimes I can just stay on a strip for 20 minutes at a time because it's in the morning and the place is not crowded. The veteran community is rich there. And it's rich there for a reason. And we invite everybody to come visit us.
[0:22:22] KG: And they're just so welcoming. I mean, when I first started, it wasn't like what do you know? It was like, "Come, let us help you." And it's just the most friendly, welcoming, supportive group of people I've ever met in my entire life.
[0:22:36] BW: Yeah. There's a reason that, Michael, you've been involved there for so long. And that, Ken, you came back. Speaking of comebacks, I got to know, February NAC is in Cincinnati, Ken. And when you saw the schedule announced that there was going to be a vet event in Cincinnati where you actually had given the donation, I mean, if that's not a sign, I don't know what is. What was your reaction?
[0:23:01] KG: As the news of next season, or I guess this season, kept coming out, I was like, "What are they doing?" I mean, first off, the vet NAC is now February instead of January. So, I had another extra month to recover. So, that was great.
[0:23:13] BW: Yeah.
[0:23:14] KG: But then it's in Cincinnati. So not only do I have a place to stay. I think my brother owes me a favor. He can put me up for a week.
[0:23:20] BW: Yeah. I think he could find a cot, or an air mattress, or something.
[0:23:24] KG: Yeah. Something. I could do something. So, I get free lodging. And I'm sure he'll feed me, I hope, if he actually listens to this. But it's in the same city where I donated my kidney. So, I was like, "Okay. I have to go to the February NAC even if I don't want to jump into the Federal Circuit." And then they moved the April NAC to Richmond, which is just two and a half hours away. So now I got to do Richmond. So it was like they made the whole season around me. I don't think for a second this is true. I'm not that important. But I mean it was just a sign for me to come back and try to jump into the national circuit.
[0:23:57] BW: Yeah, I absolutely love that. And Michael, will we see you there? What's your competition schedule look like this season?
[0:24:03] MH: Well, God willing, I'll attend all of them. Yeah, obviously when I had my surgery, I had to skip out the nationals. We travel a lot, my wife and I. I think we were overseas for one of the nationals. But other than that, we are at all of the NACs. And I hope to make the finals again. I've not been able to do that as often as I'd like. But I can get in the top 16 consistently. So I need to work on that.
[0:24:29] BW: This one's for both of you. I'd love both of you to take this in turn. Ken, first please. What's your advice for vet fencers coming back from any type of big life event, let's say a surgery, or the birth of a child, or a career shift moves them somewhere and they can't fence for a year. What's your advice for getting back in there after something significant happens in their lives? Ken?
[0:24:55] KG: There's probably four people at the club and three people in my personal life, my wife included, who have told me over and over and over again, sometimes with physical force, to listen to my body, to just stop pushing and pushing and pushing until I can't push anymore. And I think in terms of having to take that break and come back. I think one of the skills I came back with was the ability to say, "Uh, you know what? I could probably go tonight, but I probably shouldn't." And just take the night off and – I didn't go to practice Monday night last week because I felt I needed a break and I didn't want to hurt myself.
And I think listening to your body is something I clearly have never been able to do before my entire life. Took me until my 50s to actually – with some help with some forceful people actually to do it. You can't go wrong. I mean, I'm not not in a rush. I got, really willing, 40 years of fencing ahead of me. So, listening to my body and actually being able to come back in a healthy way. And I track everything. I mean, I get my metrics. I track everything. Sleep, recovery, and heart rate, and the number of touches a night and everything. Just listening to my body is the key to actually coming back and being able to compete.
[0:26:18] BW: Yeah, it's tough because there's a temptation to be stubborn and say, "Well, if I miss a training, then I'm going to be one step behind, and it's going to be a setback for my plans for the February NAC ." But in reality, you need to take that break when all the signs are telling you to, right?
[0:26:38] KG: I was absolutely ruined by 80s montages.
[0:26:41] BW: Yes. I love that. Cue the music. Eye of the Tiger right now.
[0:26:46] KG: Completely ruined me. Completely ruined me. Yeah.
[0:26:49] BW: Michael, your advice for anybody on the comeback trail for any reason, right? Not just surgery, like the two of you. But any reason they're coming back to fencing, what you'd tell them?
[0:26:59] MH: It's nothing if it's not fun. People can be very driven to be successful. And the way you define success, I think most importantly, is to be present in the moment. Be present in the moment. Be present in the moment when you're talking to the other people at the club. Listen to what they have to say. And ask questions. And when you're on the strip, to be in that moment. If you want to have success in the long haul of things, it's all about this touch. And if you want to have a good life, it's all about this moment. Focus on what you're doing today and in this moment. Just be present.
[0:27:40] BW: Yeah, I think that's really well said. And then finally, let's end by talking about anybody who's curious about becoming a living donor. We've got an audience here. And like you said, Michael, there's people who unfortunately are dying every day because they aren't able to find a match. For those who are curious like what's that first conversation, or website, or whatever that they should do? And Ken, we'll go to you first again. And then Michael, let you give your thoughts after.
[0:28:10] KG: Well, again, my process was a little different. There was a very much a sense of urgency that had to happen immediately. So a lot of the initial touches were either condensed or skipped completely for me. I mean, I knew I was going to do this if I was at all the match. I was going to be the one of the whole family to jump in and do this. And so, I was making daily phone calls and pushing hard every single – it was a full-time job for me.
So, once I found out a kidney was needed, it was a phone call, then scheduling, testing, and things like that. The biggest thing in terms of going through this process is everybody's different. So, listening to Michael, how he recovered versus how I recovered, nearly complete opposite. And there's not a lot of resources online that I could find about people who work out and train and compete and what their recovery is like after donation.
If you have somebody you can talk to about it, keeping in mind that everybody's unique, outside of the hospital setting, I would certainly encourage someone to do that. Again, everybody is so different and the recovery is so different from everybody. Don't get angry if yours isn't the same as Michael's was. I mean, I was angry, but I got over it.
[0:29:25] BW: And Michael, advice, guidance for those who might be interested in a similar life choice.
[0:29:32] MH: Well, one of the practical advantages of donating a kidney is that you get bumped up on the list. If something happens to you, you're first on the list. But also, you get four referrals, where if you have four people in your family that you want to designate or maybe one of your friends needs a kidney, you can use those referrals to bump them up in the list. That's a practical thing. Just Google the National Kidney Foundation or something like that. It's pretty easy to find.
I also get a lot of free medical help. Every few months, they check in on me, and they do blood work on me. And if needed, they would do further tests and follow-ups. I've enjoyed the free medical checkups. The people that need it need it. The reasons the program was on was that it turns out that many people like Ken's brother needs a match. But Ken's brother is fortunate that Ken's a good match. That's not always the case.
Sometimes you have somebody like Ken who's willing to donate a kidney, but they don't match their relative well enough. You have to match on eight different factors. It's pretty difficult to be a perfect match. So if you donate your kidney to somebody who needs one and they have somebody who's willing to donate a kidney, that could save another person. And sometimes when there's an anonymous donor, it breaks a log chain. They have done as many as 12 operations in one day because somebody donated a kidney and set off a chain reaction of other people passing their kidney on to somebody that was a match. It's really a beautiful thing. You could do a lot of good in the world.
And the other thing is I really wish that we could talk to Art Magazine because there's a lot of A-list athletes who like me are in their 60s or 70s who are good candidates and have the time to recover, and they're not working. And what better thing can you do with your spare time?
[0:31:49] BW: Yeah, that's great. And obviously, if they were athletes, then they're in good physical shape as well, right? Just like the two of you. Well, I just want to say thank you both so much for your honesty, and your example, and then the reminder that there's generosity in the world out there. So, we're going to be watching you guys and cheering you on at the next NAC where I'm lucky enough to run into you. And to those who catch you out on the strip, they'll have another reason to cheer for you. So, thank you both so much.
And to all of our listeners, if you like this episode, please share with your family and friends. And Ken and Michael, thank you so much, and best of luck to you.
[0:32:29] KG: Thank you for having us.
[0:32:31] MH: Thank you very much.
[0:32:34] BW: Thanks for listening to First of 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up-to-date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. And if you like this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or a review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
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