Our guest is Jenna Shoman, and at just 17 years old, Jenna's achievements are already the stuff of fencing lore. From the Manhattan Fencing Center to the global stage, her dedication to the sport is something to behold.
Today, we're chatting with a young saber fencer whose name is already gaining recognition within the fencing community. We’re talking about Jenna Shoman, and at just 17 years old, Jenna's achievements are already the stuff of fencing lore.
From the Manhattan Fencing Center to the global stage, her dedication to the sport is something to behold. Who could forget the moment at the 2022 Summer Nationals in Minneapolis when Jenna achieved a perfect pool — a staggering 30 touches for and not a single one against?
Jenna is a member of the 2023 Junior and Cadet World Team and claimed a bronze medal in Cadet Women’s Saber at Junior and Cadet Worlds in Plovdiv, Bulgaria.
[INTRO]
[0:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell, and in this show you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting, and insanely talented people in the sport we all love. First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. So, whether you're an Olympian or a Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you. With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:40] BW: Today, we're chatting with a young sabre fencer whose name is already gaining recognition within the fencing community. That's Jenna Shoman and just 17, Jenna's achievements are already the stuff of fencing lore, from the Manhattan Fencing Center, to the global stage, her dedication is something to behold. I always point to that moment at the 2022 Summer Nationals in Minneapolis, when Jenna achieved a perfect pool where she got 30 touches for, and zero against, so that we're definitely going to talk about. Jenna is a member of the 2023 Junior and Cadet World Team and claimed a bronze medal at Junior and Cadet World and Cadet Women's Sabre, that was in Plovdiv, Bulgaria earlier this year. So, welcome to the podcast, Jenna.
[0:01:20] JS: Thank you so much for having me.
[0:01:21] BW: This is great. We've chatted before for a variety of reasons. But I'm excited to get you on the podcast. I think the logical place to start is talking about where you started fencing. So, what drew you to the sport? How long have you been competing?
[0:01:36] JS: Yes. So, I started fencing when I was 11 years old. I've been fencing for six years now, and I used to mix martial arts in a town that also had a fence a club nearby. My friend, she was a fencer who fenced at that club, and one day I was injured. She told me to come watch her practice. And then automatically, when I went, I watched her practice, and I was intrigued by the sport and decided to try it for myself. After that, I immediately fell in love with sport and continued with it.
[0:02:03] BW: So, 11. Does that, because nowadays, that seems like a little bit late, a couple of years later than some people got a start, but obviously that hasn't affected your results. So, how did you get up to speed so quickly and get out there and find success?
[0:02:19] JS: Yes. I was always a fast learner. I used to do a swimming before martial arts and I was also pretty good at swimming and martial arts as well. But growing up, I just picked things up really quick. And through practice and consistency, I am who I am now.
[0:02:35] BW: Yes, I love that. So, looking back on your fencing journey so far, do you have a highlight? Obviously, you're 17, so there'll be more highlights to come. But of your medals, and of your experiences in fencing, is there one that stands out to you?
[0:02:48] JS: Yes. I think my best accomplishment to date has to be my bronze medal at the 2023 World Championships in Plovdiv, Bulgaria. But I actually recently just achieved my best national result which is getting second place in Div 1 at the October NAC.
[0:03:01] BW: Right. So, what was that experience like? Because obviously, a lot of people have told me that they're kind of nervous about making that jump from juniors to Div 1. That seems like the biggest jump that you can make. Obviously, cadets to juniors is a big jump, youth to cadets is a big jump. But juniors to Div 1 seems like a really challenging one. How did you find the confidence that you needed to get on the medal stand that day?
[0:03:28] JS: Yes. I think a lot of it comes with just like the plan and like the skill set that I have. I also trained with a lot of strong girls in my club like Elizabeth, Maia, Nora, and training with them they also like help me build my confidence in fencing older girls, and just being able to live up to that level of different skills, and high skills from all these different girls. So, I think that is a really big part of it.
[0:03:53] BW: Yes, Manhattan Fencing Center obviously, has just this like legendary program when it comes to sabre, specifically, right? So, what's it like when you're actually there on a weeknight training, and you see some of these, like senior World Team members walk in. Are ever intimidated? Are you like, “Okay, here's my chance to fence against someone who, on paper, maybe is better than me at this point.” What are you thinking in those training sessions?
[0:04:24] JS: Yes. So initially, I definitely was intimidated by them. But luckily, I have created and established a friendship with all the girls. So, right now, it's never like intimidating. They always help me grow as a fencer, and they are definitely a part of my growth as a fencer now. Like I said, they have definitely helped me build my confidence. It's really never intimidating. I always ask them questions, and they always give me advice. So, that has definitely been a part of my growth.
[0:04:51] BW: Which is cool, because ultimately, you are competing against them for spots on these teams, right? There's only so many spots on any given international squad. So, to hear that they're still, like, supportive and want to help you grow is really great, because you're also kind of gunning for them in a sense, and trying to get their spot down the road. What's that dynamic like, knowing that you're friends, but you're also in some sense rivals as well?
[0:05:18] JS: Well, that's like the special part of it. Although we are rivals, they're always there for me, and we always help each other grow. We do fence each other like almost every day. But while we're fencing, we always give each other like tips. We always ask each other questions, and we're always just there for each other. So, I think that's what the special part of it is that although there is like that rivalry, like within it, we're all like friends, and we're always there for each other.
[0:05:45] BW: That’s cool. I like hearing that. Because you want to think that it's kind of like that, that hallmark vibe, but you never really know. I think people would be interested to know like, what is the Jenna Shoman training schedule like? What does a typical week look like for you, let's say a week where you don't have a tournament coming up that weekend. What would that training look like for you?
[0:06:08] JS: So, there are three classes a week at Manhattan Fencing. Mondays, Wednesday, Saturdays, and two days of fencing, Tuesday and Friday. So, within balancing like my school and fencing, although sometimes if I have like assignments and assessments, an overload of those, then I wouldn't go to both days of free fencing. Usually, I go to the classes Monday, Wednesday, Saturday, but maybe I'll like go for one day of free fencing. Either Tuesday or Friday, depending on which one is more crowded, which one has more people there.
Usually, I think what I do is Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday, because Friday is more like near the weekend. So, a lot of people will start to go there from different clubs. That's always helpful, like not only fencing the same people, but also fencing people from other clubs. And then Monday, Wednesday, the classes are from like 7 or 6:30. Then, I just usually end by like 9:30, 10. That's that. Then, Saturdays are classes at 1, and then I usually stay there till like 4.
[0:07:07] BW: That's a lot of hours if you add that all up. How do you balance it all with trying to get schoolwork done, spending time with your friends, all that stuff that was just part of any fencer’s life?
[0:07:20] JS: Definitely. So, I definitely have established a really strong time management skills. It took a while, but I think I definitely perfected like a routine. I'm very lucky to have like a calendar. So, my school, what they do is there's like a calendar for my assignments and like my assessments. With that calendar, I get to see like all these assignments that I have for the week, and I always like to look ahead, because I get to see what I can do early. Within my tests, I always take them like – let's say I'm traveling that weekend. I always take them before or after. Usually, I do take them before, because when I come back, I like to know that I'm caught up with the class and not taking a test and learning the material that I missed. So, I usually take that before.
In terms of my time management skills. I think what has definitely helped me is creating a strong relationship with my teachers. It allows me to like communicate with them. Now, like a lot of my teachers know who I am, like in the fencing community, and they always help me to see like, where I can fit in assignments in the classroom that I missed, and also find time to finish it, and make up any work that I've missed. So, I think that's a really big part of them. Also, just always making sure that I talk to my friends and just having that social aspect in my life. Because I think that's also really important, to find that balance, and to always have like fun versus like work.
[0:08:42] BW: Some of your friends are other fencers too, right? That always helps when you're traveling with people that you are friends with. That's good advice about just like leveling with your teachers. You're saying that they do have a sense of like, that you're competing on the international stage, and you're winning international medals. Do they know who you are within the fencing world to some extent?
[0:09:04] JS: To some extent, because my school does have a lot of fencers. Not only in my grade, but also like in high school, in general.
[0:09:12] BW: That helps.
[0:09:14] JS: They always tell my teachers like how I did if I’m not there. So, when I come back, my teachers either congratulate me or ask how I did, and that also really does help. Also, because my school, whenever we have to go somewhere, we need like the teacher’s time, like a piece of paper that allows me to be able to leave. So, I'm always like asking my teachers to sign the piece of paper for me to be able to go to a competition. They always know ahead of time that I'm going to be gone and it does help me, because they always ask how I do, and then, when I tell them, it gives them a sense of who I am in the fencing community.
[0:09:49] BW: Yes, that's great. So, they're becoming fans almost too, right? Eventually, they won't even have to ask you how you did. They'll be like, “I saw on Instagram that you placed this or whatever.” That's great. Speaking of Instagram, actually, I want to talk about that perfect pool, because this happened shortly after I started my position with USA fencing. It was at the Summer Nationals in 2022. And honestly, I didn't yet know your name at this point, and know who you were. But I started getting messages from people who were like, “Hey, Jenna Shoman just had a perfect pool, which anybody listening to this would know. But just in case, that means that you started that first bout five and o, five touches for no touches received or against. Then you just kept going 5-0, 5-0, 5-0, until you had won every single pool bout with that record, which is unheard of in fencing. It's super rare. So, when you think back on that 2022 Minneapolis Convention Center, what do you remember about that day?
[0:10:51] JS: What I really remember vividly is, it's actually a funny story. I really didn't realize, or notice that I was winning my bouts 5-0 until more than like halfway through. So, maybe like my fourth bout, I probably realized, and I only realized because my coach, he had actually told me, it was like, “Let's see if you can win all your bouts 5-0 and have a perfect pool.” I obviously took the challenge and I wanted to see if I can do it. However, when I was fencing, although I did keep it in the back of my mind, it wasn't really what I was focusing on, because it's likely to be able to like lose a silly touch if you're not really focused. I focused on my plan, like ever since he told me that, I focused on my plan and my fencing, because obviously, if I focus on my fencing and my plan, a score will come. So, I knew that every touch counted, so I tried to keep my fencing pretty simple and be smart with it. That's what I really remember.
[0:11:42] BW: Yes. But it's one thing to – I mean, everybody wants to go out and win every pool bout 5-0. But you eventually did it. Do you remember stepping onto the strip for that last round of pools and being like, “Okay, it's within reach at this point.” Or were you still just kind of focused on that old cliché of one bout at a time, one touch at a time?
[0:12:00] JS: It was definitely right there, what I was focusing on. I was like, “Let's see if I can really do it.” But as soon as I on guard, like my first touch, I just focus on my fencing, and I really remember it being a really quick bout, probably the quickest set of all the other bouts, because I tried to keep it as simple as possible. Because if I try and got too comfortable or wanted to try new different techniques, then obviously the score wouldn't really be 5-0, because I'm trying too many things. So, I just tried to keep it as simple as possible and just finished the bout, and finished the pool.
[0:12:34] BW: Then, once word got out, what was the reaction from teammates, coaches, random people who came up to you at the tournament. What happened next?
[0:12:45] JS: Firstly, I was super proud of myself, because I was able to stick to my plan and show like solid fencing. My coach was super impressed and proud that not only was I able to have the perfect pool, especially because he's the one that challenged me to it, but also that I showed smart fencing. I think that was the main reason. Then, as far as peers.
I actually have a funny story about this. So, I was talking to a teammate and she'd asked me how I did in pools. I told her that I won all my pool doubts. I was undefeated. And then she was like, “Oh, did you win them all 5-0.” And I thought she has seen the results, but she actually asked it in like a sarcastic manner. So, I was like, “Yes, I did.” And then she was like, “Oh, did you actually? Did you check?” Then she was super shocked after checking.
[0:13:28] BW: Of course.
[0:13:30] JS: Throughout the competition, other people came out to me and like mentioned it and like commended me for it, and it was it was pretty nice.
[0:13:37] BW: Yes. So, you've got a big target on you at that point, right? Like not that you don't anyway. But you're the top seed. That's a good way to guarantee that you're going to be the top seed coming out of pools, I find. I'm no fencing expert. But it feels like that would be the best way to do it. So, that affects your path, through the DEs. So, let's back up a little bit and say even though you can't expect a perfect pool every time, you always want to do your best in the pools. How important is it to you to like hit the ground running and do well in pools to set yourself up later? Then also, if you do drop one of those or more, how do you make sure that doesn't faze you and knowing that there is room for a margin for error in that round?
[0:14:23] JS: So, I think performing well in pools definitely sets you up very well in the tableau, like you said. Obviously, ultimately gives you like a path that's relatively simple until a certain point. So, having this perfect pool, obviously, put me first after pools, and it did give me a relatively simple path. However, regarding losing a pool bout, I think the main thing is going into every single DE with the same mentality of without under estimating or over estimating my opponents.
For example, if I were to go on a pool bout, although I do want to go in and be undefeated, if I were to ever lose a pool bout, I don't think it would really faze me that much. Because having that mentality to go in with always just not under overestimating your opponent. Because ultimately, you do have the same chance of winning when you're on that strip. So, I go in with the same energy every bout and fight for every touch regardless of opponent. I think that mentality is better than wanting to go into a pool and wanting to be undefeated, because that does put like pressure to want to win every bout, and maybe sometimes you like lose a silly touch. But I think having that mentality to go to every DE, with the same energy, I think that's better.
[0:15:34] BW: I think that makes perfect sense. So, I'm going to talk about your Cadet Women's Sabre bronze medal. It's incredible. It was great to – I was lucky enough to get to see you fence that day in Plovdiv, that was in April. You mentioned that that was one of your proudest achievements. But now that we're kind of six months or so, seven months removed from that, what are you most proud of about that day? And what do you think when you reflect on that tournament?
[0:16:00] JS: Yes, so looking back, it's a definitely a great result. I trained super hard for the competition. I really did give it my best for everything that I worked for, for the past few months. Obviously, I was going for the gold. But this result was the bare minimum and I'm super proud of myself for being able to represent the US among like the country's fencing. I mean, it's ultimately like the best girls in all the different countries. So, it was definitely a reflection of not only my hard work, but also like my coach’s efforts as well. I'm truly just really proud to be able to end my cadet age category on a very high note, especially because I worked super hard for it, and it did really reflect through the metal, or just being up there on the podium.
[0:16:45] BW: Yes, absolutely. I mean, a bronze medal, like you said, it's the best in the world are coming there, and they're all gunning for the US too, right? I feel like that was one thing I noticed is like, the US has historically had quite a bit of success at that specific tournament. And so, I almost feel like this could just be in my head, but I almost feel like people will bring out their best when they see somebody from the US against them. Do you feel that at all? You compete internationally quite a bit at the cadet and junior level. Do you feel like people are almost going against the US in that sense?
[0:17:21] JS: Yes. I do sometimes, because I always sometimes feel like, since we always do dominate in a lot of the international competitions, I think everyone does show their best, especially when their fencing the US, especially because we're not always in like the European Championships, or like the European competitions. So, I feel like whenever we do fence, or whenever I find someone from a different country, they do give me their best. I feel like I have to reciprocate that right back and give them my best and try and win.
[0:17:53] BW: Can we back up a little bit and talk about the qualification process for juniors and cadets, because it's based on your performance throughout the season, right? And that's how we being USA fencing, determines who gets an invite to that tournament. That's how the squad is formed. So, when you start a season, how are you determining which tournaments to register for, which ones to prioritize, and exactly how well you need to perform at each one to secure your spot in Plovdiv, this past April?
[0:18:27] JS: So, I'm pretty sure there's three domestic slots. I could be wrong. It could be three or four, and then four international slots that are on the points list. So, when I was registering for the competitions, I tried to obviously register for all the NACs to be able to get the domestic slots filled. I registered for as many like junior or Div 1 competitions at the NACs. Because I feel like those would be the places where they'd fill up the best, or give me the most points.
That's for the domestic slot. I went to all the cadet international competition and junior international competitions last year, and I gave it my best. I fence hardest after that, and the points that I would get for that, they would fill up my international slots on the cadet points list. So, with the domestic and international, they're added up. Then, that's how many points you have, and then it's determined, like it puts you in the ranking and determines who gets to go. So, I always just looked at where I can get the most points, and wherever that would be, I'd sign up and then that would be the competitions that would sign up for.
[0:19:35] BW: Once it's on that calendar, then you just go and try to finish as high as you can. Then the math is done and you just get out there and fence. That makes a ton of sense. So, obviously, your results are making younger fencers take note of you and say I want to fence like Jenna Shoman. I've heard people say that actually. It makes me wonder like, who are some of the fencers that inspired you and you say, “I want to fence like this person.” Is there somebody whose game that you're trying to model your own career after?
[0:20:06] JS: Yes. So, my true role model in fencing is and has always been Daga Wozniak. I've always looked up to her ever since I started fencing, and she does truly, really inspire me to be the best fencer that I can be. Like I said, I trained with the three strongest girls in the country, Elizabeth Tartakovsky, Maia Chamberlain, and Nora Burke. Like I said, while training, I always do look up to them and learn from them. They always give me advice, and I truly take them as role models. Not only on the strip, or while fencing, but also as individuals as well. They have definitely been a part of my growth as a fencer, and I'm super lucky to have created the relationship with them and established such a strong relationship with them.
[0:20:52] BW: Yes, those are huge names, and obviously, Daga is still involved in the sport and is inspiring people as a coach now, which we love to see that. Something that I've actually heard Daga talk to fences about is the mental game. So, that's a great transition into another question I wanted to ask about, which is that mental side of the game. Do you have a way that you can prepare for a competition to make sure your head's in the right spot, when that 8am or 9am call time arrives?
[0:21:24] JS: Yes. So, preparing mentally for a competition is a huge part in the way that you perform. I try not to think too much about the outcome. I think what has helped me the most is trusting the work that I've put in, and just taking each step at a time. So, for example, like taking every pool bout at a time, or every elimination round at a time, and just executing my skills to the best of my ability. I always go to competition, like trusting that I trained hard. So, I shift my focus from any external pressures like winning or losing, to the process of wanting to perform well, and just focusing on my fencing. I think that kind of goes back to having that perfect pool. Because establishing this mentality, it also makes fencing a lot more fun, as I'm getting creative with my fencing. Then, while I'm at the competition, I usually listen to music, and this kind of helps me zone out any unnecessary thoughts, and it does energize me to get ready for my bouts, and then also focus on my plan.
[0:22:19] BW: So, let's say the women's sabre competition that you're in that day starts at 9am. What time do you like to arrive at the venue and start warming up? I love to hear about your process there too, like on the day of.
[0:22:33] JS: Yes. The event starts at 9am. I usually like to get to the venue like two hours before. I'd get there like at 7, right when it opens. I kind of just, first, in the first hour, I like to stretch, kind of relaxed my body, meditate a little bit, and just kind of relax, because I don't fence in another two hours. So, I don't want to do too much and then get tired. I probably start warming up like around 7:30, 7:45. Then, for that hour and 30, out of 2 minutes, then I'll start warming up doing footwork. But in the first hour, I just like to stretch, make sure that my body is ready for the competition. And while I'm stretching, listening to like calm music, and then while I warm up, I’d listen to more hype music to kind of hype me up, energize me while I'm warming up, and then kind of just get ready for the competition.
[0:23:25] BW: So, your musical tastes almost shift based on what activity you're doing at that point. That's really interesting. So, the competitive atmosphere at international versus domestic tournaments, you've been to a lot more than I have. I'd love to hear like how you feel about how they might differ and any similarities you have. You've noticed between those two, like a NAC, where there might be 150 fencers in the pool, and then you go to a Junior World Cup where you're competing against maybe 50, 60, 70 women.
[0:23:57] JS: Yes. That's definitely one part, the amount of people that are in the event. Both atmospheres are really different. In a domestic setting, I practically know all my competitors, as we do see each other every month or so at a NAC. While in this international setting, I typically only like fence my opponent once or twice, or even never sometimes. So, given that, I have to be able to quickly adjust during my bouts to like new techniques and new styles. Also, again, international setting. It's ultimately just the best countries and best girls from all over the world. So, it's definitely, like you said, a lot smaller.
[0:24:36] BW: Sure. Has there been a pivotal moment in your career that you point to as – we talked about some of your results. But has there been something in your career that has shaped who you are as a competitor today?
[0:24:52] JS: So, in May I actually went to my first-ever Senior World Cup in Batumi, Georgia. I think that tournament has definitely been my pivotal moment. Because I always watch and like hear about the top girls in the world and I really do enjoy watching them. But it's definitely different when they're right in front of me, like when they're fencing, I get to see their fighting spirit and their composure. So, that aspect definitely has helped me just simply through watching them. I feel like I grasped and I always try and like mirror them a little bit. So, just being able to see them right in front of me, it has taught me a lot, and I feel like it has given me some confidence and helped me grow a lot as a fencer.
[0:25:34] BW: Yes, that's really interesting. So, these are things that you wouldn't have picked up on just watching the stream. In other words, like if the women are headed to early on, like they are this weekend when we're recording this. You’re saying, you notice things in Batumi that you can't pick up on that live stream.
[0:25:52] JS: Exactly. Just like their warmup process, when they got to the venue, or like what they do between their breaks, what they do before their bout, what they do after their bout, just like the little movements, little actions, what they do. I think that has definitely been something that I've really learned from them. It's always different in person. Everything's always different in person.
[0:26:16] BW: That's really interesting. Then, obviously, you had to compete against some of these women too. So, how do you like fight the intimidation factor? I mean, it goes back to like, when we were talking about when you first started going to MFC, Manhattan Fencing, and competing against some of these top women in this sport. So now, here you are, again, where you’re kind of the newcomer on the scene, on the senior scene. How do you get your head right for that?
[0:26:49] JS: Yes. I was going a little bit intimidated. But as soon as I was there, I really wasn't intimidated at all. It was my first one. So, I didn't really have any expectations for myself. I just wanted to make sure to learn as much as possible, see how well I could do, and just focus, like I said, focus on my fencing. Because ultimately, it's my first ever Senior World Cup. So, there really are no expectations for me and I didn't really make any expectations for myself. So, I just really took it as a learning opportunity. I can definitely say, now, from where I am now, that competition has definitely helped me build the confidence and build like who I am as a fencer.
[0:27:27] BW: Yes. Successful trip, then. So, as we kind of wrap up, do you have a goal for your fencing? You can go as far out as you want. Or you could just say for this season, like, however you want to define what your goal is. Where do you want to take your career next?
[0:27:43] JS: So, my goal for this year is to make the junior team. Then, my goal, like in general, is definitely to make the Olympics. Short-term goals are just to like, focus on staying consistent, and competitions and training, giving it my best, focusing on fixing my mistakes, and overall, just getting better. I think that will definitely come through like my consistency of training, and just focusing on little things after competitions and just making it the best that I can be.
[0:28:13] BW: Yes, absolutely. I realized we haven't talked about collegiate fencing. What's your plan there? And do you intend to continue fencing in college?
[0:28:23] JS: Yes, definitely. I do plan on continuing fencing in college. I'm super excited for it. Right now, I think it's really important for me to take the time to improve my skill set and enjoy the last year of fencing as a high school fencer, and then just getting ready for that transition to collegiate fencing.
[0:28:39] BW: Yes, that's awesome. Well, it's been fun to watch your journey so far. And I know that you've got some exciting times ahead of you. So, Jenna Shoman, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast and good luck this season and beyond.
[0:28:54] JS: Thank you so much for having me.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:28:55] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you liked this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the Strip. Bye.
[END]