Our guests are USA Fencing Hall of Famers Iris and Felicia Zimmermann, Olympians who competed together in women's foil at the 2000 Olympics in Sydney.
In this episode of First to 15, we're joined by Felicia and Iris Zimmermann, USA Fencing Hall of Famers and Olympians.
Felicia Zimmermann is a foil fencer who competed at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta and the 2000 Olympics in Sydney. At Stanford, Felicia was the first woman to win NCAA titles in both foil and epee. She was also the U.S. national champion in foil four times and helped the USA win team bronze at the 2001 Senior Worlds.
Felicia’s younger sister is foil fencer Iris Zimmermann, who competed alongside Felicia at the 2000 Olympics. Iris is a three-time world champion in foil — winning the Cadet world championship in 1995 and 1997 and the Junior world championship in 2000. Iris also attended Stanford, where she won the NCAA title in 2001. She was also a three-time U.S. national champion and was on that same bronze-medal-winning team at the 2001 Senior Worlds.
We'll ask these Olympians sisters about their journey to the Games and how they supported each other along the way.
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First to 15: The Official Podcast of USA Fencing
Host: Bryan Wendell
Cover art: Manna Creations
Theme music: Brian Sanyshyn
EPISODE 18
[INTRO]
[00:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell, and in this show you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting, and insanely talented people in the sport we all love. First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. So whether you're an Olympian or a Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you. With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:40] BW: Today, we're delighted to have not just one guest but two USA Fencing Hall of Famers, Iris and Felicia Zimmermann . Felicia Zimmermann is a foil fencer who competed at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta and the 2000 Olympics in Sydney. At Stanford, Felicia was the first woman to win NCAA titles in both foil and epee. She was also the US National Champion in foil four times and helped the USA win team bronze at the 2001 senior worlds. We also have her younger sister, foil fencer Iris Zimmermann, who completed alongside Felicia at the 2000 Olympics.
Now, Iris is a three-time world champion in foil, winning the Cadet World Championship in 1995 and 1997, and the Junior World Championship in 2000. Iris also attended Stanford, where she won the NCAA title in 2001. She was also a US National Champion, winning three times and was, of course, on that same bronze medal winning team at the 2001 Senior Worlds. The sisters also opened the Rochester Fencing Club in New York, and Felicia is now the owner, and Iris is a guest coach there. She's also performance consultant for the Monarch Leadership Group.
So welcome to the podcast, Felicia and Iris.
[00:01:52] FZ: Thank you so much for having me and us.
[00:01:55] IZ: Exciting.
[00:01:56] BW: Yeah, thanks so much. This is a thrill to have you both here. Iris, I'll start with you. Looking at your fencing resumes, I see a lot of medals between the two of you. Obviously, Felicia is your older sister, so she got a bit of a head start. Was there ever any competitiveness there to kind of match with what she had done or even one up her in any way in your fencing career?
[00:02:17] IZ: That's like the most loaded question ever for siblings. It's what drives you, right? So like to be better than your older sister is what a younger sister constantly strives for. I see that I have a 10 and 8-year-old, it's the same thing for my two daughters too. So I think one is I have a lot of advantage because I got to watch her for a while. We're about five and a half years or so apart, and I just want people to understand that she's much older than me. Just put that out there. You're welcome, Felicia. I got a chance to watch her for a really long time and then to be –
She was already successful, people already talking about her. Who's this skinny left-handed girl from Rochester, New York? She was winning probably tournaments, but she had no business winning. People were under estimating her. We watched that, and then I get a chance to do it. Of course, my last name meant something already when I'm stepping onto the fencing strip. So you're both as a younger sister in the shadow. Also, it drives you.
We also competed against each other in the 2004 games. We both had incidences, where if we had beaten each other in one tournament or the other, one of us would have made the Olympic team. So it really did come down to fencing each other for a spot on the Olympic team, which neither was made. So that's fine. I've done enough therapy. I'm good. But, yeah, I mean, there's a huge competitive component to it.
But I have a couple of Olympian friends, and one of them is like the most winningest Harvard Olympian ever, Caryn Davies, and she's a rower. She used to say, “You're only as good.” Or she says it and talks that she has this. You're only as good as your competitors, right? So when she got in her boat, and she would row the eights, she would look to her right and left and thank them, right?
So we're thankful for the competitors that we have. I think, Felicia, if she wasn't as good as she was, or if I wasn't competing against her, pushing to be as good as she is or beat her, then I wouldn't have maybe pushed myself as hard. So I think it really is an advantage, a competitive advantage.
[00:04:27] BW: So, Felicia, what's your perspective of that? Because you're the older sister but also an occasional competitor against your sister on the fencing strip, so were you able to balance that that role of being the supportive older sister while also saying, “When the masks go on, I am going to try to beat you.”?
[00:04:48] FZ: Yes. I mean, it took some getting used to in the beginning. But, I mean, she started fencing at a very early age, at six, and I'm a little bit older than her, just a few years.
[00:05:00] IZ: I like that we're underlining that point.
[00:05:04] FZ: I was mentally prepared she coming up, and it wasn't until later on that it became – Where we were competing like on similar spots for the same kind of team, the senior team and such. So I think I'm probably someone – But our coach at the time, Buckie Leach, he was always encouraging us to just fence as we are. There wasn't any shenanigans or games. It was just bring your best to the floor, and show up, and present yourself that way. That's the one thing that he kind of drove into us, this idea of integrity.
There were times where people would question what we’re really like on strip or is someone going to help somebody else out. But that was never the case ever, even at the Empire State Games. So New York State used to have these like State Games, and I remember once in one of the divisions, Iris and I fenced, and I lost to her, and she was on the younger side. People thought I through that one on purpose. You will never find us throwing anything on purpose. Like we always want to show up, and it was a battle, like Battle Royale, when it was the two of us fencing.
[00:06:19] IZ: I do think one of the incidents we have, just to tell a story, is in the 2004 games, I think Valentina Vitale went up to Felicia and said, “Why didn't you throw the bout to your sister in Shanghai? She would have made the Olympic team,” and she should have been on the Olympic team or whatever it is she said. Well, first of all, I'm not sure if she should have said any of that. But I'm like kind of inappropriate, but that's all right.
Then also, I mean, you want to make teams because you make teams, right? So you want to win because the situation is correct. So I think Felicia and I very ethically and morally approached fencing, and we definitely have that ingrained in us, is we have to bring the best to the competitors because you have to – It's a sport. You have to show up as your best. So there was never any, for us, throwing a bout.
But I do think, Felicia, one of the questions I think is interesting, or part of that question, is how did you manage because you were a caretaker? So the other thing too, in context, is when we were growing up, it's not like how it is today, and our parents didn't have a lot of money. So they didn't travel with us. So we traveled in a club van to these tournaments, and Felicia was my pseudo parent. We have immigrant parents, so one from China, one from Germany. So they didn't really get things.
Felicia was the first born into an immigrant family. So she was kind of the caretaker and becoming the sort of mom to Iris. I do remember that becoming an issue because I would rely on her at points where she needed to compete. I'm like, “Well, you've got to do this for me, or fix my body cord for me, or check me in here, or you didn't get this done because –” But I think Felicia had to ride that line. So I think maybe you can comment of what that experience was like because I was just a little kid, just asking my big sister and my pseudo travel mom to do all the things.
[00:08:11] FZ: I mean, now that you bring it up, I remember that now. Thank you for that. I mean, on one side, I was happy to do it because I felt like I had a partner in crime. Actually, I had my sibling with me and my sister with me, and we could kind of like – Even though it was individual events, we did have team events, but we could kind of do it together. That was really, really exciting for me.
But at the same time then, it would fall back to like fix the body cord. Can you fix my tip? Can you fix my weapon? Then people would have to intercede on my behalf sometimes because I would just do it too much. But I definitely took on, especially when I started coming on to the senior team, and also I had great role models at that time, where we were all kind of helping each other out. There was Ann Marsh, Melanie Jones. I mean, we all – And Jenny [inaudible 00:09:02], and Suzie Paxton and Jane Hall. She's Jane Carter now. She fences on the vet team. So they were great role models for me, and we just always had this goal of getting USA Fencing on the map. Get ourselves on the podium or in the finals.
I mean, today, it's amazing to see what it is, but I just felt that I was just paying it forward a little bit more sometimes with her because she was also my little sister. I kind of wanted to make sure she was okay. I remember telling fencers, as I would compete on the Junior World Cup circuit, and Iris was still not even on the cadet circuit, and they would say, “Oh, you're pretty good for a USA fencer, “and I would say, “Hold on. Just wait till my sister comes along.”
But, I mean, I enjoyed it. I do. I enjoy it. I even tried to do that when I was with Aaron and the other front and Hannah and Meta. So it’s just kind of like passing it forward.
[00:10:06] BW: One moment that seems to be really interesting to me is that the ‘96 Olympics because, Felicia, you were there and, Iris, you were I think at the time winning cadet world titles as a young teenager at your first game at age 14. So how did you each experience that? Felicia, can we start with you and what your memories from the Atlanta games were like?
[00:10:28] FZ: So the ‘96 games were both kind of like a blessing and a curse at the same time. It was my first Olympics, and it was in Atlanta, and everything was so new to me and overwhelming in a way. We had a great team. There was a lot of pressure to make a podium, and we had already made a couple podium appearances at the World Cup circuit in terms of the team event.
Individually, I mean, I placed, I think, 19th or 21st. I mean, it was not my greatest showing, and I could not kind of bounce back very easily from that one. However, during the team event, we lost to pull in in a very tight match, and it was – There were – People still to this day are wondering if the calls were questionable or – But we lost all in all, and I believe I was the anchor at that time. It was tough because we had always, at least, made the top eight, somewhere in there, definitely a couple podium finishes.
But after that, Buckie was not happy, very upset, and he basically shunned us for the rest of the day. So then we had to kind of carry ourselves into the next rounds because of the Olympics because you’re fencing out all the places. So we kind of had to kind of keep it together. I remember just still fencing another team like while I'm actually emotionally crying, while I'm fencing my first bout. I can't remember what country it was. It's kind of a blur. But just thinking back into like the first – The team that we just lost to and having to try to pull it back together. It was tough. It was really, really, really tough.
I can't say Sydney had also a lot of positive experiences. But on the other note, it was amazing to have in the US. Iris was there. My parents were there. My mom was dressed up head to toe in red, white, and blue. As a first experience, it was very intense, and I think we learned a lot from it, trying to go into the next games.
[00:12:40] IZ: I think the power is in the context too. I think in US fencing now, we're used to seeing Americans be number one. I mean, the men's foil team just won another goal that a World Cup. That was few and far between. There were no other teams. Just remember, women's epee just started in ‘96 at the Olympic Games, so it was brand new, and Women's Sabre didn't exist. So it was on the women's foil team’s shoulders for several years to win a medal because they were the ones that were performing.
Marsh, Suzie Paxton, Felicia, Jane, I'm sure I'm missing a whole bunch because there were so many that were training in Rochester, but it was on their shoulders, and there was no one, but very few and far between people were performing consistently at the team event. I think we take it for granted now that we're one of the top nations in the world.
[00:13:31] FZ: It was an amazing experience prior to the Olympics. We had 8 of the top 10 women training in Rochester. There was [inaudible 00:13:41], Jenny [inaudible 00:13:43], Ann Marsh, Suzie Paxton, Jane Hall, Julianna Sikes, myself. Iris was still quite young. Cindy Bent. So –
[00:13:54] IZ: Sara Walsh. Monique De Bruin.
[00:13:57] FZ: Monique, exactly. Really, every day was fencing a finals at a NAC every day at practice. Then a few of us live together. So Ann, Suzie, Jane, and I, we all lived in a house together. So not only did we have to see each other every day at practice, we also live together with each other every day. I mean, we're very close, and we have great memories, and it was really – The concept was trying to get ourselves, like get the slot for team USA.
As Iris said, in context, the women's world team was really the one that was kind of being able to hit those podiums as a team and in the individual events, and there were definitely some people shining in on the other individual events. But we were the first kind of like cohesive group that was able to kind of consistently hit the podium together.
[00:14:52] IZ: Yeah. It was amazing like meeting of the stars, where Buckie brought everyone together, and everyone trained together for the ’96 team because they knew, once they secured a spot, there would be four spots open, so all of them came to Rochester, New York out of all places to train for several years.
My story of the ‘96 games is mostly having to write what is an eighth grade paper on lupus and then having all of the women who have graduated from Columbia, UPenn, Stanford. All these places helped me write the drafts. So everyone knows about lupus now, so you can ask like Jane Carter and Marsh because that's what I mean is like we went to practice at all these top women who were –
I can't imagine that for my children now. Like where can I take my daughters, where they're training with these top elite athletes who are the smartest women, who are badasses, I live with them? Felicia lived with them. So not only did I get that experience. But also every day at practice, I’m being exposed to all of that mindset, all of that training. That was the ‘96 experience for me was having like a village of like warrior women help me grow up.
[00:16:08] BW: Yeah. That does seem unique to fencing, just that level of connection to some of these elite colleges. That's actually a good segue to, Felicia, your time at Stanford, where you were also a member of the Stanford Hall of Fame, the USA Fencing Hall of Fame. There's another Hall of Fame for you, Felicia. One of the reasons behind that was you won the NCAA title in 1998 in foil and then the very next year in epee. So was that common to compete in two weapons at the time? Because we definitely don't see that today at the highest levels of fencing.
[00:16:46] FZ: It wasn't an everyday thing. But every once in a while, you would see more often a foil fencer also fencing in epee. The background behind that actually is – So at the Junior Olympics, while I was competing, the JOs provided kind of a grant. So if you would win or place one, two, or three, you would receive a grant, and the grant would be something around $500 for equipment. You would submit receipts, and then you would be able to get reimbursed.
As Iris mentioned, we had immigrant parents. They wouldn't travel with us. So any opportunity to try to get an equipment grant, I was on it. So I competed at the JOs actually, and I would fence once in a while in epee because I thought if I could just try to maximize my results, maybe I could get more grants so that I could keep fencing and get new equipment. So I said and I believe in one JOs, I won the under 17 under 20 foil, took second in the juniors epee, and I believe I won the cadet epee as well.
So there is some history of me fencing epee, and I practice once a while. I would practice in epee because I had a – I was working on something for foil, for example, and it was fun. I didn't have to think about it too much, and I enjoyed it. I just enjoy fencing as a sport and just kind of the tactics and changing it up.
But when it came time for Stanford, we had a really solid women's foil team that year, and we thought, okay, in order for us to maximize our points so that we could try to win the NCAA championships, one of us maybe should fence another weapon. I volunteered to fence epee. I said, ‘Okay, I'll do the epee.” I didn't win the foil, so I was like, “Okay, check. Let's see what I can do.”
I did not go with the intention thinking like, “Okay, I might actually win.” I was just thinking, “Okay, let's try to maximize the points.” But then you put that carrot in front of me, and I do kind of go after it. It was an amazing win. It was one of my most memorable wins in fencing, I think, was the NCAA epee one. Zoran Tulum was the coach at Stanford at the time, and it was just incredible.
[00:19:04] BW: That's awesome. This is for either of you. Do you think someone could do that today? Somebody could pull off that same feat here in 2022, ’23?
[00:19:13] IZ: I think fencing – Well, women's epee now has come a lot further, and so it's separated itself, I think, from foil. Then sabre has also separated itself from foil, and women now have grown up doing the sport. So it would be a different kind of space, I think. Not that no one could not do it. I mean, if you're Felicia and super determined, like great athlete, yes. But I don't think anything is impossible, but I think the sport has matured enough. But that's a fun question to the audience to sort of think about and banter around.
[00:19:51] FZ: I mean, there's so much specialization now in each of the weapons. Is it translatable? I don't know. It would be interesting to see. But the rules also have changed quite a bit in each of the weapons, foil and sabre, specifically, on timing. But back when sabre was first starting, you would see a lot of women's foil fencers moving to sabre. I mean, from Russia, I believe Yelena Jemayava was one of the first world champions from the Russian Federation, and she used defense foil.
Then also on epee, you had like [inaudible 00:20:24] from Hungary, who transferred to epee, as well as Margherita Zalaffi. These are much older names than the most current ones, but you saw them fencing foil and then moving into epee. Yeah. I mean, I don't – You don't really see it as much because the dedication and the specificity of the sport now has taken over, but it doesn't mean it can't happen again.
[00:20:45] BW: Yeah. It’s fun to think about. Iris, we talked about the 2000 games in Sydney and qualifying for that, what that journey was like, and what it felt like to know that you were together as sisters, going to be going to represent Team USA.
[00:21:01] IZ: So my journey was a fun one for me because I secured my spot at the World Championships pretty early. I made a bronze medal at the ‘99 World Championships in Seoul, Korea. So I knew I had my spot early on, which is great for someone who's totally anxiety-ridden as I am. So it was nice to have.
I think that the context, again, is that I actually was injured a lot as an athlete, and I had come off of surgery. I've had two knee surgeries prior to that tournament, and I did a lot of overtraining. There's actually an entry in one of my sports psychology diaries, where I talk about getting ready for World Championships, and I was pretty down because I'd never taken a break. But they forced me to take a break, and they said, “Before the Worlds, you really need to slow down a little bit. You need to just not train as much.”
There wasn't as much out there as it is now. When you're rehabbing, you can do this thing and that thing to help you. It was just either rehab or nothing or train or nothing. So it wasn't – We don't have the variety that we do now. For me, leading up to World Championships, it was really hard. I didn't think I was going to do well because I was rested. But the truth is I did awesome and broke a record and I think becoming the first medalist, I think women's [inaudible 00:22:30] medal at World Championships, after a long break.
That really set up the year, and I think it was really on Felicia, that stressful piece of making the Olympic team. I mean, I'm not sure when we knew, but I think it was pretty incredible when she did the best part of it. Felicia and I talk about it a lot in different areas is the one thing we remember the most is walking into the arena together, the stadium. So the Parade of Nations at the 2000 games, being able to do that.
I know Aaron and Keith often talk about that too. They've done several teams, where they've walked in together. But, that, I think, is the most special piece and probably brings the most emotion for the both of us is being able to walk in. My parents at the time also received a lottery to sit in the stands. So they got to be in there as well. So if all things could have been perfect, it was totally perfect. It was that, I think, we will remember forever. What about you, Felicia?
[00:23:31] FZ: Absolutely. I often tell first time Olympians, take your time when you walk through the Parade of Nations. You only get one time around that track, so you better soak it in and just take your time. For sure, that is – I'm going to get choked up now. So it was amazing.
[00:23:50] BW: Can we talk about the legacy that you've left? I mean, both of you. You're both USA Fencing Hall of Famers, and you talk about how successful especially our foil teams are right now, and our epee and sabre teams are right behind them. When you look at those, I imagine both of you are too humble to say that like the success that [inaudible 00:24:11]and others are having here in 2022 and 2023 you're partially responsible for.
But at the same time, you are. I mean, you paved the way for what these women and men are able to do. What do you hope your legacy is, and what are you seeing out there in the USA Fencing landscape right now?
[00:24:29] IZ: Well, I do hope that now the generation that watched us fence, they're kind of almost retiring too. So it's really interesting how time goes. The kids that are fencing now are starting have no idea who we are. I'm just glad that we were able to impact a generation to see Leakey, for example. Felicia and I were watching it together when she won the Olympic Games, and I think we both like screamed and cried at the same time. So it was it's nice to see the culmination of the work.
I think the legacy that we're leaving right now is a couple things. Felicia, obviously, she owns a fencing club. So for her, I'm speaking for her, but I think part of it is passing on our knowledge of fencing and also our love of the sport. One of the things that we talked about when we wanted to own a fencing club wasn't because we wanted to create these elite athletes that made the Olympic teams. We actually just wanted a safe space for kids to be in community and learn the lessons they need to be good adults in this universe.
So I think that's for us a really important legacy that we can lead is can we have really good coaches and really good students. A lot of our students go on to college, and often they're captains of their college teams, which I think for us is a huge legacy because it means that these kids are learning lessons and being supported at the fencing club, so they can be their best selves out in the world. That is a big part of our legacy.
Then for me, I take the lessons of being an Olympian, and I help people in a work sense to live better and to work better and to feel more fulfilled in their working lives. I'm also trying to do work with Olympians to help them transition from being an athlete to sort of – Transitions is my thing. It’s how do we transition gracefully from one thing to another.
So I think our legacy, I would hope it extends beyond just medals for teams, and I think that's what Felicia and I always focused on is the medals are great. Those outcomes are awesome. But I think what we can do is the younger generation and then also just helping people live better lives.
[00:26:36] FZ: As for me, I remember going to these competitions and watching these other teams just show up and having the whole team behind them, their teammates, or their coaches, and the whole rest of the staff around them. I would always think to myself, “Man, I wish I had that.” For me, I always thought about leave a place better than you, and then you had it.
Now that I went to this last World Championships, I shift a mission, seeing that the US team, like we walk in, and we don't have to think about any of those things. Those things are there, and the mindset is there. We are champions. That was, to me, always something very unique about going – I mean, at the Junior World Cups, I was traveling alone all the time. At that time, Buckie wasn't always traveling with me because there was, again, an affordability issue. I just remember seeing these teams like come in 12 strong, and I thought, okay, we're going to get there one day too.
I got to sit on the Board of Directors for USA Fencing. I chaired the Athletic Council and kind of helped try to get athletes more involved in kind of the decisions that were being made about their funding, and so on, and just get more activism from the athletes. Now, it's more about focusing locally with the fencing club and providing an environment.
As Iris said, it was very much we really thought hard about the community we wanted to create, being inclusive, and teaching kids life lessons in a very safe environment, and providing a place for everyone to kind of be able to nurture each other. Not only are we looking at excellence in the students, but also with our coaches as well, providing them a lot of support as well.
[00:28:31] BW: So, Felicia, thinking back to the ‘96 Olympics, and actually both of you since you were both were there, makes me, honestly, think of the 2028 games coming up. In both of your minds, what kind of opportunity exists for the growth of fencing in this country having a home Olympics? Because so much of this great fencing that happens internationally happens in Europe, in other countries, Asia, in other continents. So it seems like this is a real opportunity for us to grow the sport here in this country, coming in just five or six short years.
[00:29:10] IZ: Well, I really like, because this is my thing, the push for diversity and accessibility. So I saw that US Fencing sent out an initiative for some of that. LA28 has a lot of initiatives around accessibility of sport. I think that's really important. I have an 8 and 10-year-old. They’re involved in everything under the sun, and I'm just writing checks. I know that there are a lot of kids out there that could really benefit from sport and fencing.
We've tried hard in Rochester. We have a transportation issue that keeps us a lot of times away from being able to successfully sustain a diverse group of kids at the fencing club. I think more and more, I think about how expensive the sport has gotten. If Felicia and I began today, we would not, on my father's electrician salary at Kodak, be able to afford fencing period, no matter how many epic tournaments, JO she wins. So I think it's really important for us to continue to look at that.
I think LA28 being that local, but that's the initiative, sustainability, accessibility, and a huge push for diversity. I want to give a big shout out to [inaudible 00:30:31], who is someone that we trained with, and she's doing a lot to bring, what is it, fencing in the park and getting accessibility. But I know there are other places that really need that. So I hope that, yes, it's great for us. Winning medals is great, but we still need a grassroots level of growing a diverse community of people who have access to a sport that could really change their lives.
Really, I mean, sport can really change people's lives and not just for college. But just like Felicia and I were talking about is they're learning things. They're learning things and skills and tools and confidence so that they can bring that into their lives in the long term. So for me, that's what LA28 represents is that opportunity, especially for US Fencing. So I'm really glad to see some of that push.
[00:31:22] BW: Isn't that a kind of a sad comment to think that somewhere, there could be a Felicia and Iris out there, who aren't going to be able to fence because of those limitations? So that says a lot to me right there. Felicia, anything you'd like to add to that?
[00:31:37] FZ: Yes. I mean, just kind of piggying back off of Iris, it's about accessibility comes in so many forms. There’s kind of a small project I've just been incubating recently with one of my former fencing parents. For example, we have a very large deaf community in Rochester, and we were thinking like how can we make fencing more accessible to them because it's very doable. Just looking in your community, and I'm very much about community, and thinking locally, and acting locally because all of these little thousand points of light can shine.
So I think people should be creative and think through about what are the strengths? Or what are the deficiencies and like where can I be able to help. When you bring other people around you from different backgrounds, you find solutions to that. So very much, as Iris said it, things are expensive. Things are getting more expensive. Fencing is not a cheap sport. I think we have already a really great kind of like mass, but we can always grow. I think the growth happens at the grassroots level. I'm definitely someone who keeps thinking about the grassroots level quite a lot, and I live it.
That goes across coaching, not just athletes. But we really could use a lot more coaches, access to coaches, and giving them tools. They're everywhere. We just need to find them and get them excited about fencing.
[00:33:11] BW: I think that's really well said. We'll leave it at that, and I just want to thank both of you. It's been a real treat to have you on the podcast, Felicia and Iris Zimmermann. Best of luck and thank you so much.
[00:33:22] IZ: Thank you.
[00:33:22] FZ: Thanks, Bryan.
[00:33:23] IZ: This was fun. Loved it.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:33:26] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you liked this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or a review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
[END]