Eric Soyka, USA Fencing’s National Parafencing Coach (and coach at Phoenix Center & Rogue Fencing Academy), lifts the curtain on a discipline that’s “a knife fight in a phone booth”: parafencing. We cover how he got started, what Paris 2024 taught the team, myths to retire, and the practical steps any club can take to add parafencing—equipment, space, recruiting, coaching, and refereeing. Plus, where the U.S. program is headed as we build toward LA 2028 (and Brisbane) with more camps, more access, and a deeper athlete pipeline.
Season 2, Episode 15
Guest: Eric Soyka — National Parafencing Coach, USA Fencing; Coach at Phoenix Center & Rogue Fencing Academy
What we cover
Origin story: two injured athletes, one suggestion—“try parafencing”—and a deep dive into rules, video, and best practices
How far we’ve come: more media, more youth, and athletes sticking after the Games
Inside the club: fitting a frame into a small space, building a culture of inclusion, “it’s just fencing (sitting down)”
Paris 2024 lessons: qualification is the grind; the Games feel like a (very grand) world cup if you stick to process
Parafencing 101: same tactics, tighter distance, different angles; no passing, constant readiness; what’s actuallydifferent—and what isn’t
Myth-busting & classification: A (more trunk control), B (less), C (arm/hand limitations; worlds only), and why some parafencers can walk
Building a club program: frames, chairs, recruiting, coach ed, referee pathways
Looking forward: increasing camps, cross-country training, and international collaboration as the qualifying cycle begins
How to start a parafencing program (quick hits)
Equipment & setup
Frame: lock chairs safely (wood frames like Rick Swauger’s design work; ask about grants/lending programs)
Chairs: sport-specific; typical cost $3k–$5k (seek grants like Challenged Athletes Foundation); ask Utah Fencing Foundation about distributing “Jed’s Chair.”
Fit a frame into unused margins of your space; keep AB fencing running around it
Recruiting
Contact local VA programs, rehab hospitals, adaptive sports orgs; lean on word of mouth in the disability community
Start for the community, not just the Games—rec athletes count
Coach education
Basics are the same: extension is extension; “lunge” is trunk-driven; target/angles & distance management are the real adjustments
Eric will travel/advise; USFCA is developing resources
Referees
Contact Sean Shumate for the course; observations at Para NACs/para regionals are expanding (in-person and potential Zoom coursework)
Contacts
Program start: email b.mahr@usafencing.org and e.soyka@usafencing.org so we can help and connect you locally
Development priorities (per Eric)
Grassroots: frames/chairs access, frame lending, coach visits, club start-up support
High performance: travel support and more frequent training camps (domestic & international), athlete meet-ups to raise daily training level
Warm-up ideas (for para & AB fencers)
BlazePods / reactive drills for neuro + physical activation
Vector ball (color-react bounces) for quick decision and hand-eye
Timestamps
0:00 — Parafencing’s pressure-cooker distance
1:04 — How Eric found parafencing (and why he stayed)
3:08 — Visibility and youth pipeline growth
4:49 — Making a small club para-friendly
6:33 — Paris ’24: the real gauntlet is qualifying
10:30 — Similarities/differences: tactics, angles, distance, passing
13:08 — Classifications A/B/C & a common myth
15:19 — Obstacles for clubs: frames, chairs, recruiting—and solutions
22:56 — Coach/ref pathways: USFCA, Para NAC courses, observations
27:17 — The plan for LA → Brisbane: camps, access, collaboration
29:56 — What GB (and Europe) have—and how we can adapt in the U.S.
34:43 — Quick hits: where $100k would go, who to email, a go-to drill, one myth to retire
Quotable
“Parafencers are fencers. It’s the same.” — Eric Soyka
“Qualification is harder than the Games—it’s month after month of performing, recovering, and doing it again.” — Eric Soyka
Call to action
If your club is ready to add parafencing, email b.mahr@usafencing.org and e.soyka@usafencing.org to get connected to frames, chairs, grants, coaches, and referee courses.
Credits
Host: Bryan Wendell • Guest: Eric Soyka
SEASON 2 EPISODE 15
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:01] BW: Parafencers sometimes describe their sport as a knife fight in a phone booth. Not because it's brutal, but because there's literally nowhere to hide in parafencing. You start within touching distance with your frames locked and the distance set, which means every millimeter of angle and trunk control and every twitch of your hand and your blade makes a difference. It makes it fast, tactical, and even sometimes relentless, and it's a pressure you can feel by watching it.
I'm Bryan Wendell, and this is First to 15. Our guest is Eric Soyka, USA Fencing's National Parafencing Coach, and also coach at the Phoenix Center and Rogue Fencing Academy. We're going to talk about how Eric started coaching parafencing, what the Paris 2024 Paralympics taught him, maybe some myths about parafencing, and then also, some steps that any club, including the one that you listening might be a member of, can take to build a parafencing program right in your own backyard. Then we're going to look ahead at how parafencing can grow. Hey, Eric. Welcome to the podcast.
[0:01:02] ES: Thanks, Bryan.
[0:01:04] BW: How did you first get involved in parafencing as a coach and what made you commit to it long term and obviously, end up on USA Fencing's radar to where we said, “We want to hire this guy to lead the entire parafencing program for the United States”?
[0:01:21] ES: Sure. When I was first starting up the club 20 years ago, roughly, one of my athletes was unfortunately riding his bike and hit by a car and broke both of his knees. The coach at Vassar, his name was Aaron Kandlik at the time, had suggested that maybe this athlete try parafencing. That was my very first introduction into what parafencing is and what it's about and how it works. That athlete ultimately decided that he was going to rehab through fencing. He never really fully committed to doing parafencing. But it just so happened that a number of years later, one of my other athletes was involved in an accident, where she was kicked by a horse and it led to a series of physical and neurological issues, where we ultimately made the suggestion that maybe try parafencing. Let's see how that works for you.
That was pretty much when I started to go down the rabbit hole of everything that is parafencing and just absorb myself in videos of competitions and learning more about the sport and the rules and how it can function from the athlete perspective, from the coaching perspective. It's been a many years journey.
[0:02:35] BW: Looking back on that, one thing that you and I have talked about and that we're going to talk about on this episode is the future of parafencing and how we can get even better. I think it's also helpful to know how far we've come. When you first were introduced to parafencing, can you set the scene for us? What was it like? How much recognition were people getting, because I get the sense that for those watching on YouTube, they can see we both have the parafencing logo on our shirts and there's more visibility for sure, I have a feeling. But I'd love to hear how you feel it's changed and grown already.
[0:03:08] ES: Yeah. I mean, so when I first was introduced to parafencing, you could occasionally see it at national tournaments, of course, but there wasn't any education about what it was, how to get started. Everything felt like it exists, but not a lot of people know about it. I think to really find out about what parafencing was, you had to talk to Jerry Benson or Gary Van der Wege, they were a lot of people that could help, or Maestro Leslaw Stawicki was one of the people who would be able to guide people along that path. But you had to go out of your way to get to know them. Whereas, I think, now, we have a lot more media attention on parafencing, which is phenomenal, and has really helped the growth of the sport.
I think we've always had some young athletes, like Kat Bouwkamp was young when she was fencing. Lauren was relatively young when she was fencing. Now, we have Abe Kaplan and we have a bunch of younger athletes who are coming up to. I think that having that appeal for younger athletes and then getting those athletes to stick around has been pivotal to the growth of the program. I think this is one of the first times we've really seen a number of athletes, not just a small select few, but most of the athletes from our Paris program pushing forward into another Paralympic games.
[0:04:22] BW: Yeah. We're going to talk about Paris in a little bit next, but can you take us into your club and how did you, or did you convert that space into being more welcoming and effective for coaching parafencers? We should say, your club coaches, able bodied and parafencers alike. You had to keep both setups intact, I imagine.
[0:04:49] ES: Sure. For a lot of club owners out there, I have a small club. We have four strips in my club. It goes from wall to wall with those strips. We're not talking one of those huge, mega clubs. What we did was we found a small area, because there's a post that sits in the middle of the club, and that separates the strips just enough that we could fit a frame just inside that area and still have room for everybody to keep fencing around it. What we did was we put a frame there. We used that as a training area. When parafencers come in, I think everybody at the club has always been very excited to just fence with them. It's always been an atmosphere of inclusion.
For me, that's a culture that I didn't really have to work very hard to instill, but I think it's still in a lot of clubs, it's the work of the coach to make sure that that culture is ingrained in the athletes, right? Where from the little kids all the way through the adults, people may have biases that they don't even recognize that they have. They may at first be a little timid to sit in the chair and fence with one of our parafencers. But I think after they do, they very quickly come to the realization that this is just fencing. I happen to be sitting while I'm doing it, but everything's the same. My ideas are the same. The angles are a little bit different, but I can figure that out. The majority of them, I've never really had a complaint, right? Everybody's had a lot of fun.
In terms of making the club environment more inclusive, it's really just setting things up, so that way, the athletes that you have in the club have a space to be, but more than that, have a home socially and within the room itself.
[0:06:33] BW: That's great. Now let's go inside the Paralympics as we continue looking back. What were the challenges and the emotions and the excitement that you face there? What did you bring home from that, that you still, recording this in October or so 15, 14 months later that you still use in your club and in your coaching today?
[0:06:55] ES: Sure. I think one of the things that's really important for people to understand is the games, well, they're intense and well, they're the thing that athletes ultimately strive for, my personal opinion is that qualifying for them is harder than doing the games, right? Because the qualification cycle is extremely selective. For parafencing, effectively, we had to rely for a guaranteed qualification on being the top athlete in our zone, right? That meant that you have a very small number of athletes who are going to qualify out of each area.
[0:07:33] BW: In a strong zone too, right? Brazil is really good. Canada has some great fencers. Yeah.
[0:07:38] ES: Absolutely, absolutely. I think every zone has some excellent fencers and excellent athletes that they're working with. There's no guarantee that you're going to make it. I think the qualification is more stressful. Especially in parafencing, that qualification cycle is between a year and a half and two years long. It is a long time where the athletes are having to perform month after month. They have to go to their competition, recover, prepare for the next, do it, recover, prepare for the next, do it, right? Because the way our point system works, they really have to hit every major international competition.
It's very, very challenging for us on the world stage where our programs at right now, given the level of experience of most of the athletes in the Paris cycle. I think we really heavily relied on our zonal qualification path and world championships differentiating us in the points values for that qualification process. Paris in and of itself was an absolutely amazing event. I'll be honest, it felt relieving that it's just like any other competition.
[0:08:47] BW: Even in the Grand Palais, you were able to convince yourself that this is just another world cup. Okay.
[0:08:50] ES: I was. I was able to lie to myself really, really good to keep those down.
[0:08:57] BW: I saw some photos of you coaching and you were locked in. I didn't see any of you looking around like, “Wow, this place is crazy.” That's interesting to hear, because I would have been overwhelmed in the moment I have to feel.
[0:09:07] ES: I will say, that venue was absolutely gorgeous, right? I have a lot of pictures on my phone of just how majestic it was and how huge the environment was. I mean, we still have all the same processes in place. There's equipment control. It's a little bit more strict there than it is in a normal world cup, but we still have equipment control. We still have a call room, we still have all the stuff that we would have in place normally for any other tournament. I think it was important for me to give the energy that this is just like every other tournament, so that the athletes have the energy like, “I'm going to compete like I normally compete. I'm going to go. I'm going to try to win. I'm going to try to do my best.” Not get hung up on the fact that, “Oh, it's the games.”
[0:09:49] BW: Yeah. Obviously, we had a strong result there. I want to switch gears a little bit and help people understand parafencing. Maybe their only exposure to it was watching Team USA in the Paralympics, or maybe they came down to one of the events that we hosted here in the United States for previously, IWAS and now World Ability Sport, World Parafencing. Tactically, technically, what is uniquely parafencing? What shares the DNA with between able-bodied fencing and parafencing? What are some similarities and differences maybe between the two as people are becoming bigger fans and maybe smarter fans of parafencing?
[0:10:30] ES: I'm really glad that you asked that question. For me, I think of the two as very similar. Parafencing happens in this microcosm, right? It's like, you can lean, right? That's about all the distance that you can have. You have that mobility in the chair, Whereas, in the able-bodied side of things, you have 14 meters of space to fence in. Some of the key differences would be the angles that you have to learn to work with. When someone leans back all the way, they can take that highline target out of distance, but it's really hard to take the lowline target out of distance. You have to think about how angles impact things. Or someone leans forward all the way, hitting to the body might be a little bit harder, because your tip will slide down if you’re fencing foil or epic. You have to maybe aim a little bit more towards the shoulder. Your targeting has to be a little bit more precise.
One of the things that I do think is a little bit different and you alluded to this in your intro is you're always in distance to do something. Even when the athletes break away, they have to keep a really, really high degree of readiness. Able-bodied fencing, you can break that distance really big and give yourself somewhat of a break, like in epee. In Sabre, that's not really going to happen quite the same way. You have that ability to play with space and have more time that you create. We don't get that time in parafencing.
[0:11:50] BW: Even if you just want to catch your breath for one second, you got to wait till the touch is done, right?
[0:11:55] ES: Yeah. We've even had athletes use video replay as a tactic for taking a break and catching their breath.
[0:12:02] BW: It's smart.
[0:12:03] ES: Yeah. I mean, you do what you got to do, right?
[0:12:05] BW: Sure.
[0:12:06] ES: I also think one of the other big differences is in able-bodied fencing, you can pass, right? In parafencing, because you're tied to that chair, you're going to be here. You're just going to be fighting each other and you're never going to be able to change that distance too dramatically once you hit a certain point. I do think that the key differences end up being the angles that you have to learn to work at, because of how you're locked into the frame. The fact that the distance is so much tighter all the time. You can't really make big distance.
Other than that, I feel like tactics are really similar in terms of, I can trap to make pair of posts. I can push aggressively and make an attack. I can invite somebody to make a counter attack. All those things exist in parfencing, like they do in able-bodied.
[0:12:50] BW: Yeah. I think the more people watch, the more they'll see those similarities. How about some myths, or misconceptions that you want to just get, let's say, retire them right away, things that you hear and you're like, “No. Respectfully, that's not right at all”?
[0:13:08] ES: Sure. I think one of the big myths that people still have to work around is that all parafencers might be full-time chair users. Something that people might see is after a bout someone stands up to celebrate and probably like, “Wait. Wait a minute. That's weird. You're wheelchair fencing.” We have a range of disabilities in wheelchair fencing, and we have several categories that those athletes fall under. For people who aren't familiar –
[0:13:33] ES: Yeah, please.
[0:13:34] BW: - athletes could fall into category A, which tends to be our amputees. That's people with a high degree of trunk mobility. Whereas, athletes in category B have less trunk mobility. They have a tendency to have some spinal cord injury. I would say, are more likely to be full-time chair users. That's not to exclude that some athletes in category A might be full-time chair users, and some athletes in category B might be able to walk. Scott Rogers, who you've had on the podcast before, being one of those.
Then there's categories C, which tend to have, in addition to the limited trunk mobility, also limitations in what they can do with their arms. They may have muscle weakness of some kind, or an inability to use certain muscles. I think that the different categories help define what you might expect to see when fencing.
[0:14:29] BW: We should say that at USA fencing tournaments that have parafencing, everyone, at least for now, as we continue to grow, this could change, but at least for now, everybody's in one event. Internationally, there is an A and a B event. Is there C internationally?
[0:14:46] ES: They do category C at world championships.
[0:14:48] BW: Okay.
[0:14:49] ES: Right now, there are not a lot of category C fencers, even internationally. They have a tendency to combine category C into category B on the national stage.
[0:14:58] BW: Got it.
[0:14:58] ES: Hopefully, soon, we'll be able to get all the classification processes in place. Then we'll be able to, as we grow the number of parafencers, be able to separate out and have those categories at our national tournaments as well.
[0:15:10] BW: Yeah. That'll be a good challenge for you and your colleagues, like Beth Mar to solve is doubling, basically, the number of parafencing events that are tournaments. That would be great.
[0:15:19] ES: If I believe in anybody, I believe in Beth to be able to work through this.
[0:15:23] BW: Yes, exactly. We have faith in Beth on that. All right, so let's move into our second section, which is bringing parafencing to a club. Let's start with maybe the obstacles that you hear about. What typically prevents a club from adding parafencing? Is it a fear that they're going to do it wrong? Is it the know-how, staffing, space, equipment? What are the challenges, because I think it's important to identify those before we can say, okay, here's some ways that coaches like Eric and dozens of others out there have conquered those challenges?
[0:15:55] ES: Yeah. There's a lot of paths we can go with that question.
[0:15:58] BW: Yeah, sure.
[0:15:58] ES: Let me first start with, I think one of the biggest challenges that people run into is equipment, right? Having a frame where someone can safely lock into, so that way, the chairs aren't moving all over the place is really a necessity, because that's what helps keep the athletes safe.
[0:16:14] BW: Because there's so much force, right, for people who maybe haven't watched parafencing. You got to see these athletes just put so much force behind these moves. I'm thinking of Garrett, sometimes the entire frame moves when he's like, yeah. If that frame isn't intact and properly installed, maybe for lack of a better word, then there could be a safety issue.
[0:16:36] ES: Even still, we were in Sao Paulo at a training camp during one of the world cups. A close friend of mine from Brazil had invited us to their club. Garrett got in that frame and he went for a lunge and you could see the whole frame lift up into the air, slam down onto the ground. The whole room stopped and stared. Garrett was, “No, no. We're good. We're good. We're good.” The equipment is an issue. Most people in the beginning are not going to be Garrett's level of physicality.
[0:17:03] BW: Sure.
[0:17:05] ES: One of our para athletes, Rick Swauger, does an excellent job building wooden frames that are affordable for clubs. I think that one of the things that people can do is figure out either how to build something similar to that, where they can safely lock a chair into place, or they can reach out to Beth and see what we can do about either a frame lending program, or sometimes there are grants where frames are available. We just sent out a bunch of frames to a variety of clubs over the past season. The other issue would be chairs, right? Because not every athlete has a fencing chair. Fencing chairs are specially designed. It's not the same as an everyday chair, or as a wheelchair, basketball chair, right? Every sport chair is a little bit different.
[0:17:47] BW: How much is a fencing chair that you would see someone at the Paralympic level use, for example?
[0:17:52] ES: Sure. They go anywhere between $3,000 to $5,000. A lot of our athletes get their chairs through grants, like Challenge Athlete Foundation. That's highly recommended for anyone who's interested in fencing is to find a grant that you can get equipment with.
[0:18:08] BW: Got you.
[0:18:09] ES: Yeah. Most of those chairs are very expensive. While we're working on finding solutions to have more affordable chairs for people, it's when you customize them and you really build them for your own specifications, it is a one off, right? That takes time and takes a skilled laborer, so they're definitely expensive. But we have Bill Nikolai of the Utah Fencing Foundation has built a distribution network for what we call the Jed’s Chair. For those who don't know Jed Jensen was Shelby Jensen's father. He unfortunately has passed away. But Utah Fencing Foundation has taken this chair that he designed in his honor, his drive for developing. Parafencing. They are distributing these chairs to clubs across the country.
These chairs are a fantastic way to start getting parafencing in your club. Because they're super accessible. All you have to do is reach out to Bill, and if he has extra chairs, you're getting one. I haven't seen him really turn anybody down. We have stuff in place, as long as clubs know where to look to start developing their programs. I think some of the other challenges that people have is finding athletes who might be parafencers.
[0:19:25] BW: Sure. Yeah.
[0:19:27] ES: Because it is a lot more work to be trying to look for parafencers than it is maybe to have 10 kids come in off the streets and a little 10-year-old boy wanting to play with the sword is probably a really, really common thing across the country everywhere, right?
[0:19:42] BW: Totally. Totally.
[0:19:44] ES: Finding people who maybe would want to be involved in para sports is a little bit more time consuming. I think that could be one of the other challenges that clubs run into is how do they reach out, or advertise to certain resources? I think that you can find local VA programs that might be able to benefit you there, or even rehab facilities, depending on what your objectives are with para fencing, right? If you're looking to start building a Paralympic level program, you have to create a base from somewhere. I definitely think that reaching out to various, like I said, rehab facilities, VA programs, then word of mouth because it's a connected community, people will start to gather. If you want to see good examples of people gathering in a space, I would point out Denver Fencing Foundation.
Jay Taylor, who's one of our para fencers pretty much runs Denver Fencing Foundation, and she's doing an excellent job attracting people from across the country to come to Denver for having more fencing opportunities. I think that when you're willing to put in the work, finding the athletes is definitely a possibility. I think it one of the detractors maybe that it takes a little bit more effort to find athletes.
[0:21:01] BW: Yeah. You can't just put in a flyer at the local middle school and expect parafencers to show up, future parafencers to show up. Yeah.
[0:21:10] ES: Sure. I think, also, maybe people aren't necessarily as familiar with the types of conditions that may qualify someone for parafencing. Being familiar with that would also be beneficial to them. Finding the rules, understanding what conditions might qualify, and reading through those classification rules is a challenge within and itself, right? I think there are definitely, you can see some roadblocks, right? For me, I think I've always viewed fencing maybe just a little bit differently from the perspective of a club owner.
I like to build my program for the community. Even if someone might not qualify for Paralympic level classification, because they maybe are not going to have their condition as severe as it would need to be for the classification, I don't think that that should stop them from being able to fence, right? If it's too limiting, or too painful to be able to a fence able-bodied, they can still train in the chair and fence recreationally. It's a great sport and it's a lot of fun, and there's great people in this sport. So, why not? Right? I think that that's the approach that I take is build for the community first. Then that funnel works itself through the higher levels of sport.
[0:22:25] BW: Yeah. We'll talk about that one of those higher levels, the LA 28 Paralympics here shortly, but how about coach education? As a parafencing coach yourself, if someone were to come up to you at a NAC and say, “Hey, I've been coaching for 10 years, 20 years, but I've never once coached parafencing.” Are they out of luck? Or what would you tell them if they're saying, “Yeah, my club is going to be adding parafencing. We've got some interested people from our community. We've got the interest, we've got the equipment. Now we just need the coaches.”
[0:22:56] ES: Yeah. I mean, so first off, I'm happy to go anywhere and help anyone develop their coaching for parafencing. We need more parafencing coaches. For me, I've been doing work with the USFCA for the past year and a half, two years roughly, starting to develop the program that will hopefully, help build more coaches, or at the very least bring more visibility to parafencing through the USFCA in addition to after people who are not interested in joining the USFCA. Like I said, I happily go across the country.
If people don't want to reach out, I think if you're familiar with fencing, you've been doing this for a number of years, as long as you can understand the rules for parafencing, you can probably figure out how to do a lot of the technical skills. They're very, very similar. Like I said before, the big differences would be some of the angles, some of the tactics that we choose, because you can't break distance, or collapse distance in a certain way. The basics are the same. An extension is an extension, right? The difference is we don't lunge from our legs. We lunge from our upper body, right?
I think that if you spend some time watching video, talking to some parafencers and even just getting a basic like, here's what parafencing looks like, there's a lot that you can figure out if you're already very familiar with the sport.
[0:24:19] BW: Yeah. I think, don't stress about it. Call up Eric, call up Beth and give it a try, right? Also refereeing, right? We also know we need more parafencing referees. I guess, the question is pretty simple. What do we do there? How do we get more para fencing referees? Because as the sport grows, we're going to need more of these individuals.
[0:24:43] ES: Yeah. First off, I think it's important to recognize that doing your certification for parafencing refereeing, that we recognize that there are challenges and we are trying to figure out how to overcome those, right? Because the big hurdle is getting observed right now. Sean has already – Sean Shumate, for those who don't know him, has already started, tried to put into place a pathway where we can observe more people at national tournaments, give them feedback, even if they're unable to be observed during the competition, right? The last national tournament we made pool afterwards and had some referees observed there. With the growth of the para regional circuit, I'm anticipating that we're going to be able to do referee observations there as well. But in terms of the course and the testing, if I'm recalling correctly, I believe Sean runs a course for parafencing every Para NAC.
If someone is interested in it, reach out to him and see what he can do. I'm sure he can do it in a variety of settings. We can maybe see Sean. I'm going to hope that you can, that you agree with this. Maybe we can do some on Zoom for those who maybe can't make it to national tournaments, but are still interested in learning. For those who can get out to the NACs, certainly do it in person. I think it's a great experience to do that. Then, as the para regional circuit grows, I think we're going to be able to grow the observation side of it. Just in time, we're going to start having more referees. I've already had a number of referees who've expressed interest. It's refreshing to see how many people are treating this with the level of seriousness that it should be treated with.
[0:26:24] BW: Just like in the FIE, as you move your way up in refereeing, you get selected to come to some of these international tournaments. Same thing with world ability sport, right? There's a pathway there. We've even had US referees represent us at the Paralympics. I think we had three in Paris, right? Sean, Leo and Yelena. What a great honor. Now, for those who are listening, what a great opportunity to learn from one of those individuals who has referred at the highest level of the sport. That's really cool.
[0:26:53] ES: For sure.
[0:26:55] BW: All right. Section three, looking forward to the future. We've been talking about LA 28. We've got less than three years to go. How are we doing so far as we move toward LA 28? What's your goal for where you'd like to see the program by the time those Paralympics begin at the Convention Center there in Los Angeles?
[0:27:17] ES: Sure. I want to say, we're not just looking at LA. We're also looking out towards Brisbane. Because when we're thinking about the growth of the program, we have to think about it in a four-year cycle and eight year cycle, a 12 year cycle. That way, as we're progressing, we're knowing whether or not we're hitting certain important milestones. For what we're doing in terms of setting up for LA, one of the things that we're looking to do is increase the number of training camps that we have accessible to our athletes and finding ways to mobilize our athletes, so they can work together more frequently. We're also seeing what we can do to get more international camps on our radar. Or at the very least, have some fencers from other countries coming in and training with some of our athletes here in the States.
We're trying to prepare a little bit more strategically than maybe we were able to do for Paris. I think it's very refreshing to know that we have, in addition to all of our upcoming athletes who have a great deal of interest, a returning squad of athletes who also have a great deal of interest in competing in the games. I think that that level of competition will be really, really helpful to driving our athletes upwards in their skill level. I also think, one of the things that has been very refreshing to me is the way our team interacts with each other. They're incredibly supportive of each other. If one of them gets an opportunity, they tend to share it with everybody else. I mean, it's just very refreshing to see how they work with each other.
I think that if we can increase the number of instances that they have training with each other and build that into their start of their qualifying cycle, which will begin in this upcoming October, actually, next year. We have our first zonal competition in Brazil. We have about a year to get ready for that qualifying season. I think that we'll see a lot of growth as we can get some more one-on-one attention, some more group work, some more international camps. It'll really start shaping the program in a really amazing, dramatic way.
[0:29:28] BW: Great Britain, they're consistently good in the Paralympics, including parafencing. What do they have in talking with some of colleagues there, perhaps, fencers, what does Team GB have? Maybe it's funding. Maybe it is that centralized training, or club support. Are there lessons we can take from them and say, “Hey, by the time Brisbane comes around, we're going to be right there with Team GB competing for Paralympic medals.”
[0:29:56] ES: Sure. Team GB for those who aren’t familiar, has actually one of the top parafencers in the world. His name is Piers Gilliver. Piers is insanely long, athletic and smart. He has a lot of just great things going for him as a competitor. They also have a very strong women's program with Gemma Collis leading the way. For those who aren't familiar, I would definitely say familiarize yourself with GB's fencing, because it's just really, really fun to watch.
I think some of the things that we can take away from GB is going to be, first off, like you said, centralized training, right? They have a training environment at the University of Bath, where they have a lot of resident athletes already existing there. I think that that's beneficial to them. They still have some athletes right out there with the country, but they're a long ride to get to training all together. Maybe it's three hours.
[0:30:48] BW: Yeah. Get on a train, go three hours a year and you're there. Yeah.
[0:30:52] ES: Where ours is a six-hour flight, maybe, from one coast to the other. I think that part of the challenge that we encounter is because we have such a large geographic span when compared to Europe, we have a harder time getting the small number of ventures that we have comparatively together. Whereas, if we look at Europe, right, we have GB, we have France, we have Hungary, we have Poland, we have athletes from Spain, we have basically athletes from all over. They can all go compete in satellite tournaments relatively easily, for what it would be like for us to compete at a NAC. They have, I think, more instances of competition. Of course, Italy is one of the top countries in parafencing as well. Add them in there into that mix.
I mean, when you're competing with high level people on a relatively consistent basis, or even better, they have more access to international training camps, because it's a short flight for them. Whereas for us, it's a long flight, a huge change in time zones, some recovery time in there and then into training. It's a little bit different. I think that the advantages that GB has going for them is they have access. As we progress and try to give our athletes more access to training opportunities, more access to coaching, more access to fencing with each other and other high-level athletes, I think that that's going to really make the difference.
[0:32:21] BW: Yeah. When we're having this conversation again after LA, I think we'll see some of that. The future of parafencing in the US, not just thinking about the Paralympics, but if we get everybody rowing in the same direction to use a different sports cliche, what could parafencing look like here if we had the clubs, if we even had some support from colleges, if we had everything synced up and working well, what would your dream for parafencing look like?
[0:32:55] ES: I mean, I would love to see US be able to compete in parafencing, like we do in the able-bodied circuit. When I first started fencing, it would be unheard of for the US to be meddling at a world cup. Now, look at us, right? We have the top cadets and juniors in the world. Our senior team is amazing, right? We have some of the top athletes in the world now.
[0:33:22] BW: Our vets as well, right? You quote some vet fencers, too. Yeah.
[0:33:25] ES: Our veterans are amazing. I do. Yes. I have a few of vet fencers who have competed in vet world championships and we continue to represent extremely well there. We're looking forward to doing that again in Bahrain. It would be great to see our parafencing program have the support from the number of coaches that we have for able-bodied program. The more support that we get, the more intelligent, sharp minds that we put behind developing these athletes, the more success we're going to have, right?
We already have a bunch of amazing coaches in this country. If we get those coaches connected with athletes and those athletes driving and striving for high-level competition results, I don't think anything would stop them.
[0:34:09] BW: Yeah. I think that's well said. All right, let's move into our final section here, which is these quick hits. I've got five quick questions for you. Number one, let's say, Megan and our foundation, Meghan DeFord and our foundation secures, I don't know, I'm just going to throw out a number, $100,000 for parafencing. Where would you spend that money? If you were the one who got to make all the decisions, which I know is not the case, but let's just say for the sake of discussion, where would you spend that money to grow the sport?
[0:34:43] ES: Okay. Is this is just internal, or because and part of that budget is of course, going towards international competitions, because like –
[0:34:50] BW: However you want to divide it up. It's a $100,000.
[0:34:53] ES: Let's just pretend that we already have the competitions taken care of, right? An extra $100,000 that we get in the budget. I'd like to see some assistant coaches within the program. I'd like to see people who are able to go out across the country and help develop the sport for areas that have uncertainties on how to develop parafencing, so they can build some confidence. I'd like to see a robust frame lending program, or something of that nature, so people have access to equipment. I guess, the big thing is, is we have to start at the base of the pyramid when it comes to growth, right? We have to give people in this country what they need, so not just access to coaches, but access to the equipment, understanding how it can fit in the spaces.
I think a lot of it would go towards grassroots development. Then I would also take a chunk of that and put that into the high-level athletes that already exist and try to help them have an easier time in their transportation, because that's one of the big challenges when it comes to parafencing, because we have athletes, we have chairs, we have medical equipment, right? Everybody has a little train that they have to travel with. It does allow for certain challenges, that is for sure. If we could facilitate them, like I said, training more, I would definitely take some of that money and put it towards that, too.
[0:36:15] BW: I love that. All right, now question two. If a club that has made the decision they want to add parafencing, which should be the first phone call, or email that they that they should make?
[0:36:27] ES: Email Beth and I. Send us an email. Yeah. That way, we can, if you have any questions, we can help guide you. If you're just emailing, say, “Hey, we're doing this,” then we know that there's a program in that area. If there's a chance for a demo coming up, or if there's some kind of ability to just expose running something, right, then we can connect you guys.
[0:36:48] BW: Yeah. That's b.mahr@usafencing.org and e.soyka@usafencing.org. Perfect. All right, so number three. Do you have a training drill that you find works really well for both parafencers and able-bodied fencers, something that everyone benefits from, maybe it's something with point control, or maybe it's reaction time for saber, or something like that? Is there something that you love to do, and you find it works well with both types of athletes that you work with?
[0:37:23] ES: Okay. Let's go to a warm-up temp, all right, because when you look at parafencing, you're looking across all three weapons, and it's hard to say, like, hey, there’s one for all across all three weapons.
[0:37:33] BW: Yeah, true, true. Good point.
[0:37:35] ES: I really, really, really like using lace pods as a warm-up, both neurologically and physically for the athletes. That might be hard to travel with sometimes, so we also have a vector ball, which is a tiny little ball that when you bounce it, it would light up one of three colors. You can do a bunch of neurological warm-up exercises with that as well.
[0:37:56] BW: Cool.
[0:37:57] ES: That's one of my favorite things to do, regardless of able-bodied or para, because getting that nervous system ready for performance is, I think, one of the most important things you can do.
[0:38:06] BW: Yeah. I like that. Okay, number four. We hit on this earlier, but in, let's say, six words or fewer, retire one parafencing myth for us. You got to count. One, two, three.
[0:38:22] ES: Might be a few more than six. I'm just going to phrase it maybe a little bit differently. I'm not going to retire a myth, but I'm going to give people a new mindset.
[0:38:29] BW: Please.
[0:38:28] ES: Parafencers are fencers. It's the same.
[0:38:33] BW: I love that. Yeah. Come to one competition, I think the next one is January.
[0:38:37] ES: February.
[0:38:38] BW: February. Yes. Thank you. February NAC this time. Yup. February NAC. So, yeah. Come check it out. Say hi to Eric. All right. Then lastly, is there a dream partnership, or collaboration, some type of like, Phil is really great at getting these sponsorships. Some type of brand, or team, or even a university, or something that you think would be great to team up with our parafencing team, specifically, and help move the sport forward in the US? Let's just assume, whoever we approach is going to say yes.
[0:39:12] ES: That's a really good question. I think it would be really great to develop a good partnership with someone who can build the custom fencing chairs. If they were going to be able to get more custom fencing chairs out to people for either a super low price, or for free stuff for the high-level athletes, I think that can go really quite a long way in saving people's dollars, and they're entering into the sport. The elite athletes, of course, when they're traveling, more of those chairs get beat up, so they need to replace them every few years, or they need to do repairs on them. Quite frankly, I don't always have the time to weld everything.
[0:39:51] BW: I didn't realize that was one of your many skill sets is welding, too.
[0:39:55] ES: We add that into the mix. Yeah.
[0:39:57] BW: Well, this is great. Eric, thank you so much for lifting the curtain on parafencing. I loved talking with you about Paris and then how we can bring parafencing to more clubs. If you're a club listening, or if you're a member of a club, make that call and find a way to add parafencing and start recruiting in your community. Let's build the bottom of the pyramid, like Eric said. This has been First to 15. Be sure to leave us a quick rating and review. It does help us find more listeners of the show. Eric, thank you so much. We'll see you at the next competition.
[0:40:29] ES: Yup. Thanks for having me, Bryan.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:40:31] BW: Thanks for listening to First of 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you like this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
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