Our guest is Em Beihold, a successful singer-songwriter whose hit song "Numb Little Bug" has brought her global fame. She's a 23-year-old epee fencer and a 2020 graduate of UC San Diego, where she twice qualified for the NCAA Championships and helped her school win the league title two times.
In this episode of First to 15, we're joined by Em Beihold, a 23-year-old epee fencer who is a 2020 graduate of UC San Diego, where she twice qualified for the NCAA Championships and helped her school win the league title two times.
After college, Beihold embarked on a successful career as a singer-songwriter. Her hit song “Numb Little Bug” — a powerful pop anthem born out of a conversation about mental health — hit No. 1 on Spotify's Global Viral 50 chart in February and has been streamed more than 300 million times.
First to 15: The Official Podcast of USA Fencing
Host: Bryan Wendell
Cover art: Manna Creations
Theme music: Brian Sanyshyn
EPISODE 7
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell. And in this show, you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting and insanely talented people in the sport we all love. First to 15th is for anyone in the fencing community, and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. Whether you're an Olympian, or Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you.
With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
Today's guest is in Em Beihold, a 23-year-old epee fencer who is a 2020 graduate of UC San Diego, where she twice qualified for the NCAA Championships and helped her school win the league title two times. After college, Beihold embarked on a successful career as a singer songwriter, her hit song, Numb Little Bug, which is a powerful pop anthem, born out of a conversation about mental health, hit number one on Spotify’s Global Viral 50 Chart and has been streamed more than 300 million times. Without further ado, welcome to the podcast, Em.
[00:01:14] EB: Hello, hello. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:16] BW: This is a real treat. I read how you got started in music. And you were six and saw piano in a store window. And that story is great. But for our audience, we'd want to know also when and how you got started in fencing.
[00:01:29] EB: Yeah. I started fencing when I was eight, because my dad had always done it and started in college. And it's funny because he went to Cal Arts and there wasn't a fencing program. And so, he brought one to his school. And every week, fewer and fewer people would show up because they didn't realize it wasn't just like swinging swords around. Like you have to do the footwork and everything. At the end, it was just him and the teacher.
But yeah, he would give me lessons in our driveway, which was a makeshift fencing strip. And then I started taking rec classes. And I have a strong memory of me being the only one to like chase the teacher down when the whole group is supposed to fence the teacher. Everyone was doing. And I was just running at her.
[00:02:06] BW: You had that in your blood almost. And I know your dad is James Beihold. And he's still fences at the vet 60 level, right? He's also an epee fencer. How did he kind of influence your fencing career growing up?
[00:02:19] EB: Well, he wanted me to start with foil. So, I did. I took foil lessons with him. And then basically, my aim was so bad that I was like, “Dad, I can't do this anymore. Like, I got to do epee.” Because he always fenced epee. And then he's like, “Okay.” And that ended up being a much better decision.
[00:02:36] BW: Yeah. What do you remember about the sport in those early days that kept you coming back? Because I know you were already a music prodigy at that point as well, right? Trying to do it all. But you still made time for fencing, as well as school, obviously. So how did you do it in those early days?
[00:02:56] EB: I mean, I was just hooked by it. And I also loved having something outside of school and also outside of music, like something that would keep me fit and working out. And also, something that's as fun as fencing, where I feel like you can never stop growing in the sport. And also, it's mental just as much as it's physical. And it was good exercise on many levels.
[00:03:15] BW: What about the role of the parent and keeping you motivated as well? Were there ever moments when you were like, “Okay, I'm going to take a break from this now.” And you got that extra push. What was helpful there from your parents?
[00:03:28] EB: I remember, there was one time I went to the Junior Olympics, and I got knocked out in my first TE. And I was like on the verge of quitting. Because I was like, “We train hard. And then we fly. And then we get knocked out. Like, what's the point?”
And my parents were like letting me be dramatic for a second. And then were like, “If you want to, you can.” They're like kind of threatening me with that. It's like, “No, of course, I don't want to. I just wanted a reaction from you or something.” But they've always been super supportive of me. And I never could have been able to do both music and fencing without my parents’ support.
[00:04:01] BW: That's awesome. And, obviously, they were really supportive of your music career as well from an early age. And you've said in interviews that you were already writing songs when you were seven. And so, I imagine your songwriting technique is a little different these days. But I'm always fascinated by that process. What does the evolution of a song for you look like these days?
[00:04:24] EB: My favorite way to write, which isn't the best, is when inspiration strikes, and it kind of is just the flow state from there. It's really hard to get into that like mental territory, though. And it's kind of the same with fencing. Like when you're just in that flow, and you're really not thinking about it. It's just like happening. But recently, as it's become a career where I have to do it more often, I've been put in sessions with a lot of writers and producers. And it's interesting to navigate how to be collaborative in such a creative, intimate process as songwriting.
Sometimes it starts with chords. And then it's like melodies. And lyrics are tacked on after. Or it's, like, what's the lyrical concept first? Kind of there are a lot of different ways to approach songwriting. But my favorite is just when the moment strikes.
[00:05:04] BW: Sure. Yeah. Can you feel when you're in that flow? I mean, there's a parallel with fencing there too, right? You could feel like, “Oh, this is my day. I'm going to go far in this tournament.” Or when you're in a songwriting groove, are you feeling like, “Oh, I'm coming up with something really good here.” Or does that not show itself until later?
[00:05:21] EB: I mean, it's interesting, because I don't even evaluate what I'm doing, whether it's good or bad. When I'm in that flow state, I'm just going so fast. I'm not thinking about it, which is literally the same as fencing, where you're like not over-analyzing every move that you're making. And the question is always like how to get back in that state? Because it's easy to lose. But we're very lucky when we have it.
[00:05:41] BW: Yeah, yeah. That's really interesting. And going back a little bit in your career, I know it's kind of a cliche to ask musicians when they got their big break. But I know that you took a big step in your career when your song was included in a movie. That song was Not Who We Were. And the movie was the 2017 drama, I'm Not Here, starring J.K. Simmons, Mandy Moore and Sebastian Stan. I'm curious how that opportunity came about. How you got on the radar of Hollywood? And what kinds of doors that opened for you?
[00:06:13] EB: Crazy enough, my first solo show, I played at the Republic of Pi. Had a woman in the audience named Michelle Schumacher, who was the writer and director of that film. And she came up to me afterwards and was like, “Do you want to write a song for a movie? And we can't pay you a lot, but we can pay you this.” But the song she said was like more than my child self had ever seen. I was like, “Of course.” Fast forward to 2019, and the whole UCSD fencing team came to the theater to watch it with me.
[00:06:38] BW: Oh, my gosh, that's awesome. What was that like in the theater? First of all, had you seen it before you were there with your teammates?
[00:06:48] EB: I had seen snippets of it, but not the whole movie. It was a super special experience to be with them. And also, like when the credits were rolling and my name was on screen, they erupted, and it was one of my favorite memories ever.
[00:06:58] BW: That's so cool. That's actually a great segue, because I was going to ask you about UC San Diego. And, obviously, a break that we were talking about what the movie was while you were a student there. We talked about balancing fencing and music in school as a kid. But now you're a college student at this point, how were you able to keep all of those plates spinning as a student?
[00:07:21] EB: I will say music took a bit of a backseat when I was in college. I was in a band and we did battle the bands and some fun stuff like that. But it was mostly fencing. Because like it is a part time job time commitment-wise when you're in college. Coach Juan Ignacio was very nice to let me get out of practice once in a while to do music things. And he said – We made a bet that was like he gets a percentage of my income in turn. And I hope he doesn't remember that now. But fencing definitely took forefront.
[00:07:51] BW: Why UC San Diego? Like, how did that school get on your radar, both from an academic standpoint, as well as the fencing program there?
[00:07:59] EB: Yeah. I mean, it was cool because it was in state. And obviously, like, tuition-wise, we'd love that. I knew the fencing team was like on the rise. It was far from home, but not too far. And they had my major. It just kind of felt like everything aligns. And when I visited it, I've loved it. I mean, you can't not love being next to the beach.
[00:08:18] BW: Yeah, the location is ideal. And when I think about college-level fencing, California is not the first thing that comes to mind. There's not a ton of West Coast schools with fencing programs. Obviously, UC San Diego is kind of like an oasis, an island out there in some senses. What was that like kind of being geographically far from a lot of your fencing opponents?
[00:08:41] EB: I feel like we had a bit of a chip on our shoulder, because it's like, we're the West Coast. We're not really known for fencing. So, we need to prove something. And then I feel like we came in surprised a lot of the time. I remember one season, the women's FA squad went 16-3. And, like, we beat Notre Dame. We beat Princeton and like these crazy school – Ohio State, too. I mean, you'd never expect that. But we did. Yeah, I think it was exciting to be kind of the underdog.
[00:09:08] BW: Yeah, for sure. And people see, “Oh, UC San Diego's here.” The unknown, as well, played in your favor a little bit.
[00:09:16] EB: Yeah, I think so.
[00:09:18] BW: You talked about that moment in the theater with your teammates, which obviously was a highlight. But what were some of the proudest moments that you had as a collegiate fencer?
[00:09:27] EB: I mean, that season where women's FA went 16-3 was crazy, because we just cleaned up. The other two seasons – Well, there are three seasons total, because I graduated a year early. But it was that middle year when I was a sophomore. And it was just so much fun, because also the squad was very tight. And we were all just like best friends and loved what we were doing. And there was nothing like the team atmosphere. Because I had come from a club environment where it was supportive, but like I wouldn't say there were necessarily big hordes of people cheering for me, like, maybe Notre Dame, or Alliance Fencing, or something like that. But when you have all your teammates watching you and cheering for you, like, you just kind of fence better. I don’t know. I definitely sense better as a team fencer than individually, because I just like feel like I have to win. If I don't, I'm letting everyone down.
[00:10:13] BW: Yeah, that's really cool. You've got your school colors that you're representing at these events. And you're also, in a sense, representing your coach. You mentioned him earlier, Juan Ignacio Calderon. What were some of the lessons that he taught you when you were a fencer at UC San Diego?
[00:10:30] EB: He taught me something that still sticks with me to this day. And it's having action-oriented goals instead of like metric-oriented goals. Like, instead of saying, “I want to qualify for NCAA. I want to come this place. I want to come All-Americans.” You can't really control that. But what you can control is like smaller actions along the way, which is the same with music. Like you don't just say, “I want to get a Grammy.” It's how do you do the things take to get to that point?
He also taught me about broken tempo, which was very challenging for me, because I'm into rhythm, obviously, as a musician. And the whole point of broken tempo was like breaking the rhythm. We always joked about that.
[00:11:11] BW: Yeah, that's an interesting contrast to those two elements of your life. Let's shift gears a little bit to talk about mental health. And before we do, I want to listen to a little bit of your song, Numb Little Bug. Let's take a listen.
“Do you ever get a little bit tired of life?
Like you're not really happy but you don't wanna die?
Like you're hanging by a thread but you gotta survive?
'Cause you gotta survive.
Like your body's in the room but you're not really there.
Like you have empathy inside but you don't really care.
Like you're fresh outta love but it's been in the air.
Am I past repair.
A little bit tired of tryin' to care when I don't –”
[00:11:51] BW: Em, if you’d be willing, I’d love to hear about your own mental health journey and how that shaped your music career and who you are as a person.
[00:12:01] EB: Yeah, so I have anxiety. I feel like a lot of people have anxiety. But it gets to a point where it's like pretty crippling, both in music and fencing. I mean, there are plenty of tournaments where I lost because I lost myself before the bout even started. Like, “Oh, she's an A, and I'm a B. So, that's it.”
And it's something that I haven't quite solved. But I guess that works out for music, because I write about it a lot. But I remember at UCSD, I went to a sports psychologist for the first time. And she just like changed a lot of my thinking about how we perceive ourselves and performance. And there's a lot of mental work to be done. I feel like everyone could benefit from either a sports psychologist or a therapist or just someone to talk to.
[00:12:43] BW: Yeah, yeah, seriously. And not everyone has music as an outlet to kind of talk through some of those things. Having someone that they can talk to who's willing to listen seems like it would be super valuable.
[00:12:55] EB: Yeah.
[00:12:55] BW: It seems to me, too, like, just five or 10 years ago, we didn't hear a bunch of people talking about mental health as much as they do now, which I think is a really positive change. And I've even read you say that some people are surprised how honest you are about your own mental health journey. What has changed or maybe is changing when it comes to people's just understanding that it's best to just be open and talk about these things?
[00:13:21] EB: I think my generation with social media, everyone just is more open. And we don't see the point of like faking it. Not to say people don't fake it on social media. But also, with TikTok, I would say, for instance, people show their emotions in a more raw state. For instance, someone's teasing a song that they wrote, and they show like all the crying that they did up leading up to the song as to like why they wrote it. And then it just makes more sense. It's not just like this random song. Like, you actually feel invested in the emotion that's behind it.
But I remember, I had an antidepressant bottle and one of my TikToks and my parents were both like, “You don't want to show that. That like shows that you're weak. And if your employer sees that, then you'll never get hired.” And I was like, “No, no, we talk about it now.” It makes it better. Like we're all in this together.
[00:14:05] BW: Yeah, that could be a generational thing even, right? That these things were hidden away, maybe literally in the case of a medication. And now people are more honest and open about it. I mean, I think that's healthy.
[00:14:16] EB: Yeah. I think so too.
[00:14:19] BW: In fencing, we talk a lot about the physical training, the footwork drills, and accuracy, practice, and hours in the club. But what are some of the ways that fencers can practice their mental health game for lack of a better phrase?
[00:14:35] EB: That's a great question. I would like to know, because I still struggle with it.
[00:14:41] BW: Sure. Yeah.
[00:14:43] EB: But I mean, at UCSD, we did some like mindfulness training. I remember them saying like write down a mantra. And just like think about that mantra before every bout. Or touch your mask on the side before every bout. Or something that gets you into this kind of like routine that it's going to be okay. Something like that maybe?
[00:15:01] BW: Do you remember your mantra? If that's not too personal?
[00:15:04] EB: I had one. And I did say it before every bout one season. I don't remember. It was something like, “You got this.” Or something cheesy. I don’t know.
[00:15:13] BW: Yeah. It doesn't have to be something profound, right? Like that goes on a poster. Just something that helps center you in that moment. That's awesome. We talked about social media, and there's good and bad. How do people also understand that, like you said earlier, that just because someone looks like they have it all together on social media, maybe if that's the image of themselves that they're presenting, that we all have issues that we're dealing with and kind of keep it in check. Because I feel like that's one side of social media that perhaps is less discussed.
[00:15:51] EB: I mean, I can assure you that they never do. Because with the past year, I've met a ton of crazy people that I never thought I'd meet, like, writers, and producers, and other artists, and people who look perfect on social media. And then, I mean, I'm blunt. And I wrote Numb Little Bug. I talk to them about mental health and how they're doing. And no one's fine. I think it would be nice if like we didn't only highlight our successes, but our failures, too. I mean, not that it should be like woe is me, pity, pity all the time. But just a more accurate depiction of what's actually going on. I make TikToks about awkward interactions that I have, because I think they're funny, and I don't see shame in like telling the world this is how I am. This is what happened.
[00:16:29] BW: Sure, yeah. Yeah, we all could use a little bit more of that. Finally, I know your songs have been streamed hundreds of millions of times, but I'd love to hear about some of the personal interactions from fans, if there's something where a fan found your music and shared a personal story that maybe you could share with us.
[00:16:49] EB: Yeah. I mean, the amount of DMs that I've gotten from people saying like I feel less alone because of your music, or I reached out to a therapist, or talk to my family, because I realized that I'm not alone. That's the reason I do all of it. That means the most to me.
[00:17:02] BW: That's awesome.
[00:17:03] EB: When I went on tour, I opened for Anson Seabra. And I met some fans that – I mean, I remember one of them literally started crying and was like, “I didn't commit suicide because I found your music.” And that's so moving. The fact that you can be there for someone without really being there in-person is crazy. And I'm glad they're still here.
[00:17:21] BW: Yeah, for real, and just the power of music and your ability to move people.
Well, thanks so much, Em Beihold, for joining us today. This has been a real treat to have you.
[00:17:34] EB: Thank you for having me.
[00:17:36] BW: And so, you can follow Em on Instagram. She's @embeihold. And also find your music on Spotify, Apple Music, all the great places where you get your music. And we'll share all those links in the show notes. So, thank you so much to Em.
[00:17:49] EB: Thank you. Bye.
[OUTRO]
[00:17:51] BW: Thanks for listening to First the 15, the official podcast of USA fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And if you liked this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell. And I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
[END]