Olympian and 2023 World Champion Eli Dershwitz returns to First to 15 with a unicorn update: he’s bought the club where he trained for 17 years — Zeta Fencing outside Boston — and stepped in as owner and head coach. We talk about translating world-class saber into beginner-friendly training, partnering with parents, setting expectations around college recruiting, and what Paris and the most recent Olympic cycle taught him about leadership and leaving with no regrets. Eli also shares his club mantra (“EAT: Effort, Attitude, Toughness”), the gold medal he’d put in the lobby case, why stationary drills miss the mark in modern saber, and whether his own path includes a fourth Olympics.
Season 2, Episode 8
Guest: Eli Dershwitz — Olympian, 2023 World Champion, owner/head coach at Zeta Fencing
What we cover
SEASON 2, EPISODE 8
[0:00:02] BW: Eli Dershwitz once told us that he wasn't at fencing tournaments to sightsee. He was there to do a job. And then about 18 months after we had our last conversation, he's done exactly that and taken on a new job that very few in the fencing world, if anybody, can claim. Today, we're welcoming Olympian and 2023 World Champion, Eli Dershwitz, who has come home in a sense, not just to visit Boston, but to buy the club where he trained for 17 years. And he wants to start building the kind of environment that he would have wanted as a fencer when he was a kid going between lessons.
Today on First to 15, we're going to talk about what it means to return as the owner and head coach of your childhood club. How you can translate the world-class training and fencing that Eli's done into a place where beginners are taking their first steps in the sport? And then what this last Olympics taught him about preparation and leadership and leaving with no regrets. Eli Dershwitz, this is really a unicorn story. And welcome back to First of 15.
[0:01:00] ED: Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate you having me on the show. I'm super excited to kind of talk about how I got to this point in time, how much this club, Zeta, meant to me as a childhood fencer in suburban Boston, and also my plans for kind of how to help the trajectory of the club go in a direction where all the kids coming in the door feel like this is a place where they can learn, a place where they can experiment, a place where they can have a good time, where they can train at a high level, and just hopefully have some of those amazing experiences I got through the sport fencing when I was a young fencer at Zeta.
[0:01:35] BW: Yeah, I love that. And let's first talk kind of about your mindset. And when we last talked, it was before Paris, before the Olympics, and you were really vocal about mentoring your younger teammates on that team. And obviously, when we're talking about what's going to happen at Zeta, they're not just your teammates, and they're not just guys who are 18, 19, 20. These are going to be kids who are 7, 8, 9, as well. But when you show up at Zeta and when a young fencer comes in there, how do you get yourself invested in their growth? Because you're their teammate in a sense, but also, you're there to help them reach their own goals.
[0:02:10] ED: I think the number one thing is communicating to the kids that no matter what they're going through, a tough day at school, something personal, some trouble in fencing, just communicating to them that I've probably dealt with these same problems. I've dealt with these same anxieties. I've dealt with these same worries. I grew up in this area. I went to school in this area. I know how hard it is to balance your time between athletics and your academic calendar, traveling to tournaments, missing school, keeping a social life.
I really think that kind of explaining to them that, in their mind, even if it's like, "Oh, this is really tough. No one probably understands what I'm going through." I can honestly say, "I have a feeling for what you're going through. I understand what you're going through. Talk to me about what's going on in your mind. Let's come up with a solution. Let's come up with a plan. Let's come up with a way to turn this into a productive training environment." And then once they feel that there's this ability to communicate with me, I think it becomes much easier to push them on days where they need a little bit more pushing. It makes a little bit easier to take a step back if they need a little bit more flexibility. But just making sure that, as a coach, I'm trying to train myself and learn when are the best times to push people a little bit more, and when are the best times take a little bit step back and just give a little bit more support in the overall training environment.
[0:03:27] BW: It sounds like you're not just interested in building great fencers, but also great human beings, well-rounded individuals. I imagine some of that is going to be done just through conversations that you have. Also, what's the role of the parent there? Do you sit down and have a chat with them as well and say, "What are your child's goals?" And also, maybe you're telling them how they can best be supportive when they're not at the club?
[0:03:51] ED: Yeah, I think definitely over the next few weeks I'm going to try and have like a one-on-one introductory kind of meeting and conversation with all the parents of the kids that I coach and all the parents at the club. I want to be very clear on what like my non-negotiables are, what the expectations are from my end as a coach in terms of kids making sure that they have their equipment working, making sure that they're on time, making sure that they're responsible for bringing their water bottle and their fencing stuff to the strip, making sure that they know where they're supposed to be, when they're supposed to be warming up, when they're supposed to be doing all these things.
I think having the responsibility on the kids to have a lot of these small routines and habits already in place makes them much more able to understand directions, and strategy, and coaching because they're already used to having a checklist of things that they're responsible for. And I think slowly but surely, over the years, turning them into a little bit more mature young athletes, giving them a little bit more responsibility helps them go off on their own, learn a little bit more on their own, and try to take a little bit more ownership over their own training and competitive level.
[0:04:56] BW: Yeah, I love that. Let's back up a little bit because, obviously, the catalyst for us talking today is the fact that you bought your own club, a club that was so special to you. But why is now the right time to do that? And when did you make this decision? I'd love to know who are some of the people you talked to that you trusted to say, "Is this a good idea?" And then how did you finally make that leap into saying, "Okay, I'm going to actually own a club and start this new chapter?"
[0:05:24] ED: Yeah, I think obviously the number one kind of supporter and person was my childhood coach, the guy who founded the club, the guy who ran the club for two decades. Having his support and his blessing for this really meant a lot to me. And then just walking into the room and seeing, even though the space is a little bit down the street from where it used to be, the same artwork, the same furniture, the same kind of feeling, it really gave me this deja vu kind of moment where I was like, "This is a place that feels like home to me. This is a place that I want to create an atmosphere for kids to come in, to push themselves, to improve, to learn, to be able to travel, and train, and compete in different parts of the world. I think all of those things really made it super special for me and made it a little bit of an easier decision to kind of move back from New York and settle back down in Boston with my fiancé, soon to be wife, Karen.
And then I think that, definitely, some of my mentors and coaches over the years have been super supportive. My friends and family have been super supportive. Karen has been super supportive. I think that I just have a really good group around me that believes in my abilities to both train and compete as a high-level athlete, but also to prepare, and coach, and teach as a high-level coach. It's a challenge that I'm really looking forward to.
I want to make sure that the progress we make and the changes we make are a little bit slow and steady so that the kids of the club feel like there's some consistency in the training. But I definitely want to do my best to kind of do everything that I can to give them the best possible training environment. And make sure that, as a coach, I'm being very diligent about creating the best possible atmosphere for everyone to grow in.
[0:07:04] BW: And so, obviously, you're not new to coaching. But what is going to be new/different about being a club owner? What are some parts of that that you've already said, "Okay, maybe this is something different that I wasn't expecting. Or this is a new challenge and opportunity for me?"
[0:07:19] ED: Yeah, I would say the hardest thing for me is definitely going to be the communication with all the parents and families at the club. When I was an assistant coach at Tim Moorehouse in New York, I was responsible for communicating and coaching just my personal students and then running classes, right? But now having the responsibility to actually make sure that every member of the club, even if they're taking lessons from another coaches, they feel like their worries are heard. They feel like they have communication with the coaching staff. They feel like they're getting updates on how their kids are doing in class. They feel like they're getting guidance about which tournaments fit for their kids, long-term training plans.
I think organizing this whole information machine is definitely going to be the most difficult thing for me. But I think it's something that I have to just go off on kind of a leap of faith and figure out as I go and just make sure that I'm doing my best to be diligent with my communications. And making sure that the vision that I have for the club long-term is something that I'm able to explain to others in order to try to make sure that everyone's on the same page regarding what the end goal is with the club.
[0:08:20] BW: And what is that vision long-term? How would you articulate that right now?
[0:08:24] ED: Yeah, I would say that the number one thing is I want – the fencing has gotten a lot bigger since I was a kid. I want this club and I want this sport to be a place where everyone of all ages, all skill levels, all levels of experience feels comfortable coming up, taking this sport into their own hands, training at a variety of levels, competing at a variety of levels. I want there to be a place for everyone in the fencing community at my club.
And I want to make sure that based on where these kids are in their lives, in the sport and stuff, that there's a place where they can be challenged but also supported. And there's a feeling that they have room to grow, to improve, to be part of a community where other people are lifting them up. And they're also doing their part of lifting up others. And making sure that as we push harder, and as we train harder, and as the elite class gets more competitive, that it's a place where people feel comfortable making mistakes, taking chances, trying new things, right? And they really feel like they're able to grow as a response to making mistakes and learning from their mistakes.
[0:09:25] BW: When we were first chatting about this idea for a podcast, we called this a unicorn story because an Olympian and a world champion buying and running the club where he trained for 17 years, in your case, or even if it would have been less time, it still would have been an equally amazing story. But when you think back to when you were a kid going to Zeta Fencing, what were your memories of what made that club so special? And how do you translate that into now your role and giving that same experience to the next Eli Dershwitz out there?
[0:10:00] ED: Yeah, I mean I think that's easy. I think practice when I was young was always fun. It was always something I looked forward to. I looked forward to learning. I looked forward to competing. I looked forward to seeing my friends at the club. Creating an environment where kids are having fun in the sport, where they're enjoying themselves, where they anticipate having a good attitude, and really wanting to show up day in and day out. That's for sure the number one thing.
As a coach, it's very easy for me to push, and challenge, and create little obstacles and challenges for the kids to overcome if they're at the very start having a good time and they're enjoying themselves there. Definitely with regard to this, it's just creating an environment where, at the very basic level, it's fun. Kids should be coming in, meeting people from other towns, other than their hometown. Having a community around them that they might not have if it weren't for fencing, and just using this type of support system to kind of slowly over the years push a little bit harder in terms of making training a little bit more challenging, making the kids a little bit more self-sufficient with regarding their own personal workouts, rehab to do at home, conditioning on the weekends, nutrition, hydration, mobility, all these things that we're going to focus on. Just making sure that at the start, it's just a fun activity. And then we kind of push from there.
[0:11:16] BW: Yeah, that makes total sense. An area like Boston, or New York, or some of these larger cities are lucky enough to have several great fencing clubs. How do you see the competitiveness between clubs? Is that something where you're like you're ready to lean in and say, "I'm going to prove that we are the best club in Boston. And if you're serious about fencing, you come here." Or how do you view that competing against other Boston-based clubs?
[0:11:42] ED: Yeah, I think my coach, Zoran, put it very well when I was young. He was like, "I want my work to speak for itself. I want the training environment and the competitive results to speak for themselves. I want to do my best to stay away out of the noise, out of the drama, and just focus on the training environment that I'm creating, the level of the teaching and the mentorship that I'm creating." I don't really want to spend time arguing or competing against local clubs. I want the focus to just be on doing the best that we can do. And if that's not for somebody, if someone has a different opinion, if someone has different priorities, that's fine. I understand. But I really want to spend all of my time and energy just creating the optimal kind of training environment for the kids to succeed in. And I think that if you do a good job in that regard, it's a small sport, word of mouth travels fast. My hope is that those results and those communications and that type of feeling from the families that are at my club speaks for itself.
[0:12:42] BW: Yeah, I think that's a great outlook. And meanwhile, to me, the way to grow fencing is not by poaching from other clubs. It's by introducing new people to the sport, right? Because we have plenty of people who haven't even given this sport a try yet that would really love it. For a lot of families, they see fencing as a potential path to college. And obviously, you have such a great legacy there, right? You went to Harvard, then you went to the Olympics. And so for a lot of people, that's like the dream, going to one of the best fencing schools and then making it to the Olympics. How do you set expectations reasonably when you've got a family coming in and saying, "I think my kid is good enough to fence in college. And Eli, I need you to help him get there?" How do you manage those expectations?
[0:13:25] ED: Yeah. I think the first thing is talking to my parents and being like, "Whatever reason you came to me for me to coach your kids, I understand there's a large variety of reasons why people get into the sport." If college is something that's important to you, I understand that. But it's very important for me and for my relationship as a coach to the student that the focus is not on college recruitment. And that, every single time that there's a bad day of practice or a bad local tournament, we're not saying, "Oh, do my kids never go into college?"
I think that regardless of what the expectations are on the other side, the relationship for me as a coach and the student has to be about very small but continuous progress over the years. Doing things the right way, providing the correct foundation, the correct technique, the correct movements, the correct injury prevention, the correct conditioning. Teaching them about taking care of their bodies, hydration, sleep, nutrition. Teaching them about taking care of themselves mentally with regards to mindfulness, gratitude, controlled breathing, meditation. Making sure that I'm going through the whole package of objectives for the kids to have a well-rounded training environment.
And if we do all of those things well, I think I can prepare students well for the college circuit and national kind of competition, international competition after that. But I think that at the very beginning and at the start, it's very important that communication is centered around small but continuous progress, having the right objectives and mindsets for the kids.
I think when we spend too much time focusing on the 10-year plan, we lose sight of the fact that there's going to be good days and bad days. There's going to be good competitions and bad competitions. If we have good days and good competitions, we need to be able to sit back and analyze and figure out how we can recreate these situations. And then on the bad practices and the bad tournaments, figuring out how we can take a step back, analyze, make small changes without blowing everything up, and thinking everything is wrong, everything needs to be started from scratch.
And just making sure that I can explain to other people that, as a very young fencer, I wasn't the best. But I do think that I had a very good foundation. I think that I got a little bit better continuously throughout my childhood. And I think that's the progression that we really want to see out of our youth athletes. That's the best way I think to build love for the sport, to build love for hard work, to build love and appreciation for delayed gratification, and an appreciation for how hard work will pay off in the long term, not just the short term. And I think that overall philosophy has done me very good as an athlete. It did me good when I was a coach at Harvard for several years after graduation. And I think that's something that I just want to try to instill in the families and members of my club.
[0:16:03] BW: And part of that culture also needs to be conveyed to your staff, right? Which brings me to something I'd love to hear about, which is your mentality and philosophy for developing a staff at the club. How do you plan to develop the coaches there and work as a coaching cadre, team, whatever you want to call it, to get the most out of your students?
[0:16:25] ED: Yeah, I think at the beginning, most of it comes down to just watching, taking a backseat, seeing where I find that people have the biggest strengths, finding out where we can make small changes to training to make it a little bit better. But I think that definitely, as I start along this new journey, making sure that I'm doing a little bit more watching than talking in terms of just making sure that I have a good idea about everything that's happening at the club. how training is going, how lessons are going, how the long-term preparation is going, how kids are kind of responding at tournaments to the practice that we're giving them, how they're dealing with pressure situations and worry, anxiety at tournaments, and which ways we can make small kind of changes or add in small drills or mental exercises to prepare them better.
I think, in my mind, I'm constantly thinking about, "How do we make these changes really quickly? How do we get these things to be top-notch right away?" But then I have to kind of sit back and realize that my coach, Zoran, growing up, he had a 10-year plan for me. We didn't rush. We didn't cut corners. We started with the foundation and the basics. He kind of helped lead me into the correct way of training in an efficient and mature way. And that's kind of how I want to build our system here at Zeta.
I think slow and steady is definitely going to be our mantra. And then once I have a better understanding of how everything works, how all the kids fence, how the different kids' personalities needs different types of coaching and stuff like that, I think I can get a little bit more strict. But not to say that I'm not going to be strict at the beginning, because I'll definitely be strict at the beginning, but even more strict once I have kind of a better understanding of how everything's running.
[0:17:58] BW: And are there things that you have changed right away? And is there anything that you've vowed that you would never change that you say, "This is something that's so fundamental to Zeta," and Zeta, I remember that, "that I'm never going to change." I mean, anything big or small?
[0:18:10] ED: Yeah, I would say nothing at the start. This is really my first week working at the club. And my wedding is this upcoming weekend, so I'm going to miss a few days there. Definitely need a few weeks, I think, to just kind of see how the different classes operate, see how the kids kind of work. The culture and fencing in Boston is a little bit different than what I'm used to in New York. Traveling to the club and carpooling. And I think there's a lot of logistics that are a little bit different. So, I think, just making sure that I'm being patient enough to learn about kind of the families and kids that are kind of trusting me with training their kids is an important first step before I can go off and make these really kind of crazy long-term plans.
But I have a lot of ideas in terms of how to long-term make the training environment top-notch in the nation. I think I still have good kind of connections with other college coaches and college athletes, and members of the junior and senior national team, to try and bring in special guests for clinics and camps. There's definitely a long list of things that I anticipate kind of bringing into the training to make it a little bit more elite. But I think I have to kind of take a backseat, at least at the very beginning, just to kind of learn a little bit about the community around me before I kind of institute a lot of my kind of long-term plans.
[0:19:25] BW: And you come in with such a great track record. And you're well-known, obviously, internationally. But in Boston, especially, because you have your fencing roots there. But I do want to briefly talk about your time in New York City with Moorehouse Fencing. Just reading when you announced this big move on Instagram, just reading some of there, you said, "Thanks to Tim for giving me such an amazing opportunity to coach at such an amazing club while training to pursue my Olympic dreams." What do you want to say about your time there and how that's prepared you for this next chapter?
[0:19:57] ED: Yeah, honestly, I loved it. It's definitely a much bigger club than we have in Boston. But I was surrounded by an incredible coaching staff. I learned so much from the other coaches and athletes around me every day at the club. It was the first time where I actually started having a really close personal connection as a coach to families and not just the students. Because when I was coaching at Harvard, I really only had a relationship with the athletes themselves, and I really only dealt with the athletes.
But now, for the few years in New York, I had to learn how to kind of communicate effectively with both the students and the families, both in practice every day and when we're traveling to tournaments and stuff. I think that I learned a lot about good club culture and a good working relationship between coaches, students, and parents there. And I'm extremely thankful for kind of the opportunities that were given to me to be able to still compete and train and travel while also coaching.
I really enjoyed my time there. I think that the kind of learning opportunities I had there were second to none. And I wish all of my old students and everyone at that club the best. I'll be cheering for them kind of at tournaments. I do believe that a coaching student relationship is one for life. So, I'm hoping that anyone I've ever coached feels comfortable kind of asking for guidance or advice. And for me as a coach, to be able to help any way I can. And then I hope that I'm able to take some of those lessons and bring them into this new Boston training environment to make it as friendly and inviting as possible so people feel like it's a place where their families are welcome, where their students are welcomed. It's a place where they feel safe to learn and grow and make mistakes, but then also a place where we can get our kids to the national stage, competing on the national stage, winning medals at the national stage. And just doing everything I can to build a well-rounded training environment where kids are coming in every day hungry to learn, hungry to improve, hungry to compete. That's the environment I want to foster. And that's kind of the club that I want to dedicate my life to being a part of.
[0:21:59] BW: Yeah, I think that's terrific. Talking about medals and wanting to get your students up there on the medal stand, top eights, and at national tournaments, how will you kind of measure your own success, say, a year from now? Is it about medals? Is it about the culture of the club, number of members retained, recruiting, the impact in the community even? What does success look like for you at Zeta?
[0:22:25] ED: I think number one thing is just increasing the volume and numbers of kids that are coming through the doors. The big thing for me when I take over this club is starting a foundation, 501(c) nonprofit that can fund raise money and introduce new kids to the sport that might not have had the financial resources to kind of even enter the sport in the first place. And making sure that I'm going through my network of friends and acquaintances to see who's ready to kind of give or an opportunity to provide this kind of access to fencing, a sport that changed my life, to as many people as possible. That's definitely the number one way I'll measure success is just how many people that I can get involved in the sport, that I can get passionate about the sport, that I can get interested in learning, and improving, and training hard in the sport.
And then I think the results will come long-term. I'm confident in my abilities to provide a good training environment, to provide a good structural foundation for fencing, a good tactical understanding of the game, good strength of conditioning, things like that. That to me is going to be the easier part. I think I just have to be okay with thinking long-term and thinking about producing results over a number of years rather than a number of months in order to do it the right way. But I would say those are the two ways in which I'll probably most likely kind of measure success in the short term.
[0:23:43] BW: That's great. And I've got to ask this because you said it in your caption, and you said, "I'm not sure about my future as an athlete and what this means." What can you tell us about your competitive plans? Anything you're willing to share at this point? I know this is a big transition for you, and you're getting married soon. So, a lot going on. But Eli Dershwitz, the fencer, what's happening there?
[0:24:04] ED: Yeah, I would say that I'm not closing the door on anything. I think I still have what it takes to compete at the world level. I think I have what it takes to go to a fourth Olympic Games if that's where my heart is. I think the number one thing in the short term, while I'm kind of trying to take over this club and get things running smoothly and running in the environment that I want, the number one thing for me is going to be whether or not I have an itch internally to get back on the competition strip. How much I want it?
If the only thing that is drawing me back towards international competition and making a shot at the LA Olympics is that I could tell people, "Oh, I went to four Olympics instead of going to three Olympics." That's not good enough for me. And I probably wouldn't pursue it. I think it's really going to come down to, over the next year, how I'm feeling with regards when my friends and old teammates are at competitions? How much do I miss it? How much do I want to compete? How much of my heart is still in being an athlete versus how much of my heart is dedicated to being a coach? I think it's possible to do both. But I think I would just need a really good reason and a really good internal drive to kind of take that commitment to be training so much again and traveling all the time on top of the competitions I'm already going to be traveling to as a coach. I think that only time will tell. But I'm trying to stay in shape. I'm fencing with the kids a few times a week. I'm going to continue training in the Boston area a little bit just to stay in shape. And then I guess a lot of it will just come down to the feeling in my heart for how much I still want it.
[0:25:31] BW: Yeah. And the good thing is you don't need to decide right now, right? You can still see, like you said, where your heart's at and where life takes you. What was that experience like last summer? Because, for example, I was lucky enough to be there in New York one day, where you were sitting down for some media interviews. A bunch of TV stations and magazines wanted to talk with you. And you also were coaching that day and training. What was that busy schedule like? And how do you feel like it affected your desire to want to do that again for LA, let's say?
[0:26:03] ED: Yeah, I would say physically it's definitely the most grueling work that I've ever done in my life. Being able to train for three to five hours a day and then also coach for another six to seven hours. Just being on your feet in fencing gear, moving footwork lessons, strength and conditioning for like 10 to 12 hours a day, it's just beyond physically exhausting. And that's definitely the number one reason why I will not kind of commit to going for a fourth Olympic Games, even if it's in LA, if I don't have some type of feeling inside that this is what I really want. It's truly where my heart is.
I don't want to just go off and do this just because I want to tell people, or because that's what people expect of me, because I'm still 29. I think that it was physically grueling, but it was something that I decided I wanted to do. It was something I was willing to kind of grind on. And I think long term, right? It's much easier to put in that type of hard work and stay married to that grind in fencing if you love what you're doing.
I think in the short term, it's really just kind of experimenting a little bit, figuring out where my love in the sport is still at, figuring out how much of love is still as an athlete and how much as a coach and club operator. And then just trying to stay open-minded about how I'm feeling, what direction I'm kind of leaning towards. Making sure that I'm doing an adequate job of communicating with my mentors, and teammates, and coaches from the past about how I'm feeling. What they think. Making sure I'm getting good advice. And then making an educated decision sometime in the next year.
[0:27:35] BW: I think that's terrific. And we'll be watching and cheering you on either way. I know I speak for the fencing community in saying that. So, since the last time we talked on the podcast, we've introduced this new thing that we close out each episode with, which is kind of a rapid-fire. Five quick questions before we let you go. These all happen to be about your club and about your philosophy for Zeta. Let's say you were able to have this brand-new, flashy sign over the door that had some type of club mantra or slogan, and you had to come up with something right now, what would it be? Two, three, four words that describe the club.
[0:28:10] ED: I would say this is a Jordan Burroughs' quote. It would be EAT. Effort, attitude, toughness. If you come to practice every day with a great attitude, ready to learn, great effort level, ready to give your all, and great toughness level, ready to overcome obstacles, ready to overcome challenges, ready to persevere even if you lose, even if you're struggling to trying to get back up and try again. I would say those three letters kind of give a very solid overview of my total coaching philosophy about what I expect for the students every day.
[0:28:41] BW: I love that. Let's say also now we're envisioning the entrance into this club, and there's some type of museum to Eli on the left. Not saying you're going to do this, but let's say there was. What would be the first thing that goes in that glass case? Some physical item that to you represents your fencing career so far?
[0:29:02] ED: The first thing that would probably go in that case would probably be my gold medal from the 2023 World Championships in Milan. I think that was by far the best day of competition in my life. It's where I think I fenced the best. It's where I think I prepared the best. It's where I think I kind of had the hardest path in terms of having kind of tough opponents in every round. It's where I think I overcame the most obstacles and the most kind of adversity. I think that medal and that day would kind of encapsulate what I believe to be kind of the mark of resiliency as an athlete.
[0:29:33] BW: Yeah. I mean, I know we're just saying hypothetical here, but maybe you do need like a neon sign. This is effort, attitude, toughness, and then your medals right there. I don't know. That'd pretty cool.
[0:29:42] ED: I'll think about it.
[0:29:43] BW: Okay. If there's some sort of fencing drill that you think is overrated, I'd love to hear what it is. Something that you see a lot of like other coaches. You don't have to name them by name. But you see other coaches or clubs doing with their athletes that you're like, "That's not helping at all. That's not doing anything." Or something you see on TikTok or Instagram, you're like, "That's not doing anything for your fencing." What would it be?
[0:30:07] ED: Yeah, I would say mostly that would be surrounding stationary drills. I think that movement and footwork is so important in modern saber. All of the top people in modern saber, men's, women's saber, all age groups, they move well, they use their forwork well, they use the strip well. I would say drills where people are kind of standing in place and just not moving their feet at all would probably be what I would shy away from the most.
Obviously, technical drills have their place in every sport, in every kind of activity, but I would say mixing our technical drills with some type of movement from the feet rather than being completely stationary would probably be my number one thing that I want to make sure is very consistent in our club.
[0:30:49] BW: I love that. Number four, if you could borrow an ability from an athlete in another sport and incorporate it into either yours or your students' skill set? It can be mental or physical attribute. But what athlete would it be, and what's the skill?
[0:31:07] ED: I think it would be Novak Djokovic and the way that he talks about negative self-talk. I think that there's a lot of – there's this common, I think, philosophy or notion in athletics that athletes need to stay away from negative self-talk. They need to stay away from telling themselves, "Oh, that was bad, that was not good, you're not good enough," all these things. And I think he's been very clear and articulate that even the best in the world, they deal with negative self-talk, they deal with anxiety, they deal with self-doubt. It's not about removing that self-doubt. It's not about removing personal worry or anxiety. It's about minimizing the amount of time it takes to accept and analyze this self-doubt and remove it from your head to focus on something more positive.
Rather than telling yourself, "Oh, something went really poorly, and I'm so bad," and just leaving it at that, right? Accepting that after a tough bout, or a tough tournament, or a tough practice that there are going to be some parts of your mind that kind of are overly critical of you. Doing your best to understand and accept that this is a normal part of athletics training, especially for youth athletes. Finding a way to accept it, that it's normal. Finding a way to explain to yourself that the reason you're being critical is because you really care about the outcome and the results, and trying to minimize the amount of time it takes to move past this self-doubt and on to something more positive and more focused around the next touch, or the next bout, or the next competition.
[0:32:30] BW: All right. Last question. What is your pre-coaching routine? Obviously, athletes have a routine that they do before they go out and fence. What do you do before you go out and coach to get yourself in the right physical and mental headspace?
[0:32:45] ED: I would say, mentally, I'm pretty good about just showing up when I need to be. I would say, physically, that's a tough thing. When I'm going to be coaching for seven, eight hours in a row, I need to make sure that I'm fueling correctly. I need to be rolling out before I give my lessons in classes, especially if I'm going to be demonstrating drills and fencing with the kids. I try to do my exact same warm-up that I did before I competed, just to make sure that all the muscles are activated. I do my band exercises, I do my stretching, I do my warm-up.
Not sure how many years I'm going to be able to keep that up in terms of having that as my daily routine. But as of right now, in order to protect myself physically, I'm trying to prepare for my days of coaching exactly like I would as an athlete and making sure that I'm being super diligent with my muscle activation exercises, my stretching, my cool downs and stretching afterwards, and just making sure that physically I'm ready to give the kids kind of everything if they're going to be really putting their heart and soul into training at a high level.
[0:33:38] BW: Yeah, that's great. Well, Eli, thank you so much for chatting with us. And excited to hear where you take Zeta Fencing and cheer you on through that. And I know we'll see you at some Knacks this season wearing your Zeta gear, right? Are you getting some new gear?
[0:33:55] ED: Yeah, a lot of new gear is on the way, and I'm really excited. Honestly, thank you for having me on. Thank you for letting me talk about my love for coaching and my love for this club. And I'm just excited to kind of give and pass along all the knowledge and expertise I have to kind of the next generation. For anyone who's looking for coaching or anyone out there who kind of wants to give it a try, I hope that people will come find me, people will hook me up to try and see if I can help them in their athletic journey. And I'll do everything I can to try and help prepare this next generation as best I can.
[0:34:27] BW: Yeah. You've got the passion and the skills. And now you have the home to bring it all together. So, congrats on this big move. And another big milestone coming up for you as we're recording this this coming weekend. Good luck with the wedding as well. We will be talking soon. Thanks, Eli.
[0:34:42] ED: Thank you so much.
[OUTRO]
[0:34:44] BW: Thanks for listening to First of 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up-to-date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. And if you like this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
[END]