Our guest is Dr. Jasmine Brewster Piper who is currently working closely with USA Fencing's Paralympians as they prepare for the Paris Paralympic Games.
Our guest is Dr. Jasmine Brewster Piper! Dr. Jasmine is a highly skilled sports chiropractor who has dedicated her career to helping athletes perform at their best, especially those in adaptive sports. With a deep understanding of biomechanics and injury prevention, she's currently working closely with USA Fencing's Paralympians as they prepare for the Paris Paralympic Games. We're excited to learn more about her role, her approach to athlete care, and her insights on staying competition ready.
[00:00:01] BW: Hello, and welcome to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. I'm your host, Bryan Wendell. In this show, you're going to hear from some of the most inspiring, interesting, and insanely talented people in the sport we all love. First to 15 is for anyone in the fencing community and even for those just checking out fencing to see what it's all about. So whether you're an Olympian or a Paralympian, a newcomer, a seasoned veteran, a fencing parent, a fan, or anyone else in this wonderful community, this podcast is for you. With that, let's get to today's episode. Enjoy.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:40] BW: Today, we're welcoming Dr. Jasmine Brewster Piper. Dr. Jasmine is a highly skilled sports chiropractor who's dedicated her career to helping athletes perform at their best, especially those in adaptive sports like parafencing which is known internationally sometimes as wheelchair fencing. Dr. Jasmine has a deep understanding of biomechanics and injury prevention. As we talk, she's getting ready to go to the Paris Paralympics to support Team USA there. Before she finishes packing, we're excited to chat about your role, your approach to athlete care, and any insights you might have about how all athletes, whether they're parafencers or able-bodied fencers, can stay competition-ready. Welcome, Jasmine.
[00:01:21] JP: Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:24] BW: I'm excited, too. How did you get into this field originally, and did you ever think that someday it would lead you to the highest level of the sport?
[00:01:34] JP: Yes. That's a good question. I actually never thought I'd be a chiropractor. I have always played sports, and I knew I wanted to mix medicine with sports. But I didn't know how to do that. Chiropractic isn't traditional for sports care or wasn't when I was going to school. It was more of your PTs, your ATs, your spine physicians. I just happen to stumble upon chiropractic. Then I realized that chiropractic kind of married all the things I loved about healthcare in a holistic manner for athletes, so it would just turned to be the perfect fit for me.
Then did you ask me about adaptive sports?
[00:02:12] BW: Yes. I would love to hear how that specific piece of it also entered your life as well.
[00:02:17] JP: Sure. No, I never thought that I would be working at this high of a level. I thought you would have me at high school football games, and that would be the highlight of my journey. But this has been such an honor to be able to work with these athletes and never thought I'd be here, so young Jasmine would be very proud. But as far as adaptive athletes, my nephew has cerebral palsy. So I knew after we got the diagnosis that I wanted to be a part of his care team of physicians who would help him just fulfill all of his dreams and live out his life the best way he could. If he wanted to play sports, he would have the team to help him do so.
[00:02:52] BW: That's awesome. How did you get specifically involved with USA Fencing? I know I got to see you work when we hosted a Wheelchair Fencing World Cup. Obviously, you get to travel with the team quite a bit to various World Abilitysport, previously IWAS events. How did you get on the USA Fencing's radar?
[00:03:11] JP: Yes. My mentor is Dr. Bill Moreau. He is a chiropractor who used to be the Chief Medical Officer for the USOPC. He’s my mentor, and he actually knows Dr. Peggy. We were at a convention, and we shook hands, and I met Dr. Peggy, and she asked me if I had any experience with fencing, and I said no. She said, “Well, you've been trained by Bill, so you must have game.” Then she called me the next week and asked if I wanted to go to Poland. I always laugh at this story because I was in Portland, Oregon at the time. I thought she wanted me to work in Portland for fencing. So I was like, “Yes, I'm here. Let's do it.” Then I got confirmation that I was leaving for Poland for wheelchair fencing.
The way I got into it was just knowing the right people and having an excellent mentor and just talking to Dr. Peggy, and sharing my experience, and she just trusted me on the phone call, and then proving myself with the athletes at subsequent events.
[00:04:11] BW: Yes. That actually was my next question which is how do you build that trust with the athletes. Because, obviously, at first, you're just this stranger coming up and saying, “Can we talk about perhaps some pretty personal questions, right, about your physical needs?”
[00:04:25] JP: Yes. Being a chiropractor, you have to be able to build rapport. We are a hands-on profession. I'm literally trying to feel what's going on. We have to have some kind of comfortability, connection. I'm very transparent, very honest. I allow for a lot of space for athletes to feel comfortable and to tell me their concerns.
But before we even get to that stage, it's just asking the right questions. I want to know who you are as an athlete, where you are mentally, where you are emotionally, and how is that affecting your healthcare, or how has it affected your healthcare at to this point. Knowing that I am new to your situation and you’re new to just you as a provider that I need to learn you. So giving the athlete the opportunity to tell me what works for them and what doesn't work for them, instead of coming in, “I'm the doctor. I have the degree. I know what you need.” You don't even know their name. I just think having that open line of communication.
What helped me also is the athletes I've been working with, the para-athletes, they have a lot of extensive health history. I actually reviewed all of their health history before I went. When I first met them, I could list all the medications they were on. I could list all their diagnoses. I knew every athlete from their medical history standpoint, and I think that allowed for them to be a little bit more comfortable with me. She's not coming in to just adjust me. She actually knows me pretty deeply.
[00:05:54] BW: Yes. That actually – I was wondering about that because the athletes on our para team would all have providers that they're working with back home. Again, here comes someone that they hadn't worked with before. But now, you have built up that connection and have really built some great working relationships with these athletes. How does that change things that you kind of like know what you're seeing out there? When you're watching them compete, you have that almost investment in what they're doing.
[00:06:25] JP: Yes. I mean, I've been with them for about two years, so it has now become a personal connection. Still, you're very professional, but I have seen them grow in such dramatic ways. When it comes to their healthcare and me being a provider on this level, I am a lot more invested. I've seen the ebbs and flow in their healthcare. I've seen them at their best, I've seen them at their worst, and I'm always got to the point where I can anticipate when something's going to happen. I think having that connection, having that relationship, and having that investment allows me to help with prevention, especially with my spinal cord injury athletes or my lower leg impairment athletes. I'm able to almost anticipate an ailment that's going to happen because I have this investment with them.
[00:07:14] BW: Yes, and that certainly helps. How do you kind of take that and create a personalized plan for each athlete? Obviously, you know their history. You can anticipate what you're seeing. What does that look like? Also, is it in your head? Do you have like a chart somewhere where you're like, “Okay, here's the details on this specific person.”?
[00:07:36] JP: I do. If any of the athletes were to say one thing about Dr. Jasmine is that she communicates a lot. I think it's a great thing. I'm in communication with athletes. I'm in communication with their personal doctors at home. I'm in communication with Peggy. When I work with them, it's not just at the events. I am invested with them, and they can call me with a request. I need a referral. I need a suggestion. I am constantly in the know of what's going on and referring them.
That does help with a treatment plan because I have this extensive history on them, and I see them for a World Cup in May. I know what they have been doing the months prior. Then we create a treatment plan. Then after the World Cup happens, they have different treatment with different providers, and I get that information. In the next World Cup, I change their treatment plan according to what has been working and has not been working. Basically, to answer the question, I'm just in communication with all of their providers. It's definitely a collaborative effort, and that allows me to tailor my treatment per athlete.
[00:08:45] BW: I love that. Where are you based out of?
[00:08:48] JP: I am now in North Carolina. I was just in Washington, DC five months ago, but I moved to North Carolina.
[00:08:54] BW: Even though you don't get to see them every day because Jataya Taylor is in Denver, right? You're still able to kind of keep in touch with them beyond the events which actually kind of surprises me. I didn't realize that that was part of it as well is just you're not just popping onto the radar every couple of months for a competition. I think that's really interesting.
[00:09:17] JP: Yes. It's not an expectation that is set by sports med. It's an expectation I have for myself and for the athletes. Yes.
[00:09:23] BW: Got it. Cool. Let's talk about injury prevention. What are some common issues that you might see and have to deal with, and how do you help athletes prevent them from popping up in the first place?
[00:09:39] JP: With some of my spinal cord injury athletes, my SEI athletes, they have what's called thermo dysregulation, so they can't regulate their temperature. There’s a lot of education on hydration, having food and snacks available throughout the tournament or the events. There's a lot of things that are happening within the central nervous system. As far as fencing injuries, we have a lot of overuse injuries, a lot of your tendinosis, tendinitis, torn ligaments. Those are a bit complicated to work with because a lot of the athletes are in wheelchair. If they're having overuse injuries from fencing, I can do all the rehab I want, but they're using a wheelchair. That kind of exacerbates their injury every day.
Another injury I see often is a lot of fractures. We have quite a few fractures that happen, and I think it's more so because a lot of them don't have feeling of their lower extremity. Just transitioning into different chairs while at the events, they'll maybe get their foot caught or stub their toe, and it actually breaks a toe or an ankle. It's interesting when I get this question because you don't get the typical injuries that you may hear from able-bodied fencing; your concussions, your lacerations. It's more of systemic conditions that are going on, things that are being caused by being in a wheelchair, having lower limb impairment, instead of actually fencing.
[00:11:09] BW: Interesting. Then there's the other side of it which is just not so much preventing and treating injuries but also just being in peak physical condition because anyone who's ever tried wheelchair fencing at one of our demo events or somewhere else knows that you've got to be lightning fast and strong and have a lot of endurance to get through that. Ideally, you're spending time working on that side of it, too, right, where you're not just talking about injury prevention. You're like, “How can we make sure you are in peak condition to compete and win out there?”
[00:11:45] JP: Yes. That's true. With that, because I'm not there, that takes a lot of collaboration. “Hey, what's your rehab program? What are you doing? What's your rehab program at home? What does that look like? How often are you training? How often are you going to the gym? What do your rest days look like?” That’s just me just butting my nose in what's going on, instead of me actually providing a care program for that.
[00:12:09] BW: That makes sense. Yes. How about the mental side? You talked a little bit about that and that you actually consider that part of the whole package, the holistic care that you mentioned. How do you incorporate those strategies to help the athletes be mentally prepared when they're getting onto the strip?
[00:12:28] JP: During treatment, I do a lot of mindfulness or try to practice mindfulness for myself and with the athletes. We focus on breathing while we're doing treatment. Does this hurt? Yes, that causes a lot of pain. Okay, take a deep breath in and let it all out. That helps me with what I'm doing, and it helps them to understand their body and what's going on. It brings them a sense of peace. I also focus on a lot of mind-muscle connection. Really feel that muscle that's hurting and what's going on. When I do this, does that feel a little bit better? I think a part of being an exceptional provider is knowing what you know and what you're good at, and knowing what you don't know and when to refer.
When it comes to the mental health, I do practice holistic healthcare, but I also encourage all of the athletes to seek a sports psychologist or other mental health services. I think that it is just important at this level of activity and just for anybody. I always promote that. I do know this is not my area of expertise, so maybe I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole with you. But this is a great recommendation for you.
[00:13:38] BW: Yes. That's great. I just love that the conversation is now not taboo because every Olympian and Paralympian that I talk to now, they're like, “Yes, I talk to someone every week, a sports psychologist who is helping me talk through the issues that I'm feeling and the thoughts that sometimes creep in when I'm out there competing.” I don't know. Maybe it's just me. But 10 years ago, you didn't hear about that as much.
[00:14:04] JP: I agree and I think it's so important. As someone who believes that pain manifests in the body, I mean, that's what chiropractors believe in. We do seek help from sports psychologists, and I love to hear that they see them frequently. I agree that wasn't a conversation that was happening five years ago.
[00:14:20] BW: Yes, yes. I think it's important. How about just the humans, the people on the team that are headed there? We’ve got six amazing people headed to Paris representing Team USA and many more who didn't make the team this year but are looking good for LA, right? What’s it like just hanging out with them? The competition, fortunately, doesn't take up the entire day, meaning you can head to dinner, I imagine, with them and just kind of hang out a little bit.
[00:14:48] JP: I hope that no one takes offense in this. I do still understand that patient-doctor relationship. But truthfully, they are some of my best friends. I spend so much time with them, and I love them as individuals. They are some of the most funny people, most silly people that I know, but they have your back and they – it's like a big family. Aside from being their doctor and really wanting to make sure that they're at their best physical performance, I love them as individuals. I am so excited for them. I feel like that's my family. I just love it.
[00:15:24] BW: Yes. What was your reaction? I've talked to some of the athletes about this. What was your reaction when the team started getting locked in? A couple years ago or three years ago in Tokyo, we had three. Now, to have six people going to the Paralympics is huge and some would say even maybe unexpected. We exceeded the expectations here. But when you got the news that, “Hey, here's our team,” how did you react?
[00:15:48] JP: I cried like a baby. Oh, my goodness. I remember being in Brazil. When I heard some of the athletes who were close to getting a spot, I just couldn't it because I didn't expect it to happen. Then when I got the confirmation, I was like a proud mom showing pictures to everyone telling everyone to follow USA Fencing. Look, those are the athletes I work with. To this day, I will talk to random people about them like just, “Did you know such and such is going to Paris?” I cry like a baby. I'm so happy. Even now, when I talk about it, I just get so excited.
[00:16:25] BW: Yes. What are you most excited about for the Paralympics? As one of the members of the team behind the team, you play an essential role and should get to enjoy the experience of going to a Paralympics just as much as the athletes.
[00:16:40] JP: Yes. I am excited to have the opportunity. What a big opportunity it is, and I think that USA Fencing is making some history right now. I'm excited, of course, to see the athletes, and I'm excited to see them prove themselves wrong or surprise their themselves. I'm excited for that because they in the work. I know they know what they're capable of, but I don't even think they know what they're going to accomplish. I'm just so excited to see that.
Being that I've traveled with them so often, I go to a lot of international events. I'm Team USA through and through, but I do see a lot of other athletes from different countries. I'm excited to see them compete. I'm excited to see everyone who has been training hard and seeing what happens.
[00:17:27] BW: In talking with – you mentioned Dr. Peggy. That's, of course, our Director of Sports Medicine, Dr. Peggy Chin, who's awesome. Talking with her, I learned that she's also made friends with some of the other country's providers. Is that true on the Paris side as well?
[00:17:42] JP: Yes. Well, the Paris side, we don't really have a lot of providers. If our athletes are taken care of and I'm not needed, I actually treat other athletes.
[00:17:54] BW: Oh, interesting.
[00:17:55] JP: Yes. I have actually made friends with other athletes from different countries.
[00:17:59] BW: Got it.
[00:18:00] JP: Most countries don't send providers with their para team, so they're all just struggling. If it's something quick that I can just help with, why not?
[00:18:07] BW: That's awesome.
[00:18:08] JP: I've made a lot of friends in different countries which is really great. Cool thing to say.
[00:18:12] BW: Yes. No. I love that. What's the most rewarding part about what you do?
[00:18:17] JP: Oh, man. It's such a loaded question. I mean, of course, it's seeing the athletes. Of course, that's going to be the number one answer. I think the most rewarding part truthfully is being able to share my passion and my love for adaptive sports and being able to see other people excited about it and aware about it. I am a doctor, and I always will take care of my patients. But if we can educate one more person on the language, if we can educate one more person on accessibility, that makes me really excited.
The hype that's around the Paralympics this year is just outstanding. I no longer get question of, “Are the Paralympics and the Special Olympics the same thing?” I no longer get those questions which I'm like, “Finally. They're very different.” Instead I get questions like, “Did you see such and such athlete?” People are now invested, and I'm really excited about that.
[00:19:13] BW: Yes. I think this is such a huge opportunity, and I'm glad it's in Paris and in such a great location. This is such a huge opportunity for adaptive sports and for the Paralympics to really make a splash. It helps those of us who live in the United States because we're next up, right? We've got the LA Paralympics coming in just four short years. That part is exciting, too.
Yes, the conversation is more out there, for sure. The NBC is going to be showing more Paralympic coverage than ever before. We're excited about that. We'll be able to watch our wheelchair fencers, our parafencers there.
But I still feel like we have more to do. From your perspective, what are some things that you would want a fan of Olympic fencing, let's say, of able-bodied fencing to know and watch for in the Paralympics coming up?
[00:20:05] JP: That these athletes are incredible athletes. They are strong. They're quick. They are fierce on the field of play. Just because that it's stationary and they're not moving does not mean that they don't have skill. They have a different level of skill, and I think it makes for a fun game. It’s a game of finesse, a game of strategy, just like able-body. It just looks a little different.
[00:20:30] BW: Yes. The speed, I think, is whenever I hear from someone who participates in one of these Walk-N-Roll tournaments, for example, the fencer who is trying wheelchair fencing for the first time is just always shocked by how fast it is, right? There's nowhere to hide. You're not moving away. You can't go anywhere, so you got to be super quick and thinking on your toes, so to speak. It's really fascinating.
How about your own goals? What does Dr. Jasmine want to do after the Paralympics? What are some of your personal goals?
[00:21:03] JP: Well, first, I'm going to take a break. Take a rest. But I will pick up where I left off. I believe that chiropractic care, it's not a specialty service. It's not a service that's meant for one type of person. I think every athlete, every person deserves holistic healthcare and quality healthcare. I will continue to push the education on chiropractic, the accessibility of chiropractic because I see what it does for our para-athletes. I don't think that it should be deemed for one type of person. I will continue to push that envelope, and that's been something that I have been doing since I started, since I graduated. It's been my goal to have chiropractic become more accessible.
[00:21:50] BW: Yes. I really love that. The love that you showed toward our athletes, I think, is just – it's very visible, and it's awesome. Everybody who talks about you just raves, so that's great, too.
Then, finally, where would you like to see – and I know you have a big role in this, but you also don't – you're not working full-time for USA Fencing, so I'm not putting this all on you. But where would you want to see USA Fencing and specifically parafencing in four years let's say when we're having this conversation before LA ’28?
[00:22:21] JP: I want us to take a team twice the size, three times the size that we're taking now. We have some real promising athletes that are coming up in wheelchair fencing. I think that we still have a lot to do to just spread the word of wheelchair fencing. I just want to have more people show up at LA ’28.
I mean, Beth, who's the manager for parafencing has been doing an exceptional job with just developing the program. Dr. Peggy has been doing an amazing job with sports med, specifically sports med in parafencing. I just want there to be more athletes, I want them to have high-quality care, and I want them to have the support of their nation, which I'm sure they will.
[00:23:02] BW: We want Dr. Jasmine to be as busy as possible, right? Instead of six athletes that you're supporting there, let's make it 18, right?
[00:23:10] JP: [inaudible 00:23:10]. Yes.
[00:23:12] BW: I love that. Well, thank you, and safe travels to Paris, and good luck. Yes. Thanks for all you do for our athletes in USA Fencing.
[00:23:19] JP: Absolutely. Thank you.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[00:23:22] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you liked this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the Strip. Bye.
[END]