Damien Lehfeldt — chair of the USA Fencing Board of Directors and coach at Nova Fencing Club — joins First to 15 to demystify governance vs. operations inside an NGB. He shares his path from athlete to coach to board chair, how the board sets strategy while staff executes, and why the 2024–28 Strategic Plan centers on “growth, growth, growth” (memberships, clubs, brand, referees, and parafencing). We dig into the Governance Task Force proposals (including the flexible 4-4-4 board model), the importance of independent directors, and how he and CEO Phil Andrews collaborate without crossing lanes. Plus, quick hits on Damien’s governance mantra, his “magic wand” for clubs, and why governance is pure épée.
Season 2, Episode 9
Guest: Damien Lehfeldt — Chair, USA Fencing Board of Directors; Coach, Nova Fencing Club
What we cover
SEASON 2 EPISODE 9
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:02] BW: Whenever Damien goes to a NAC, someone might come up to him and say, “Hey, can you move my pool? Can you add more places where I can charge my phone? Can you schedule my event for 1 PM, instead of 8 AM?” Damien Lehfeldt understands, because he knows you care about fencing, and then he might explain the line that a lot of folks never see, which is governance versus operations. He lives right at that line. As Chair of the USA Fencing Board of Directors, he's also a coach at Nova Fencing Club, a 30-year member of the fencing community. Welcome to Damien Lehfeldt.
We're going to talk about his path from athlete to coach, to chair of the board, also, demystify who does what in our sport, his role versus the CEO's role versus staff like me, frankly. Then, we'll close with a look at the governance task force proposals, what they are, what comes next, and even how you as a USA Fencing member might get involved. Then we're going to finish with a few fun, quick hits as we've been doing. With that out of the way, I'm Bryan Wendell. This is First to 15, and welcome, Damien.
[0:01:04] DL: Thank you, Bryan, for having me. Really glad to be on here and clear up some of the roles and responsibilities and talk a little bit about what we have going on at the board level right now.
[0:01:13] BW: Yeah, and you've been beating that drum for a while, the governance versus operations. I think, let's rewind a little bit. For those who haven't met you yet, or haven't heard your story, I know you've been involved in USA Fencing for three decades. Can you talk about how you got into the sport and really, what's kept you in it long enough to wear all these different hats that you wear today?
[0:01:34] DL: Yeah. I got into it, my best friend since kindergarten, his dad was a champion level fencer in Sweden. He just gave us épées to play around with when we were around eight years old, and just have been in it since and haven't looked back. As a competitor, I didn't really go anywhere in my career. I don't have anything really to look back on and say, I was a Olympian national team member. Nowhere nearly close, even with that.
For me, what keeps me going back here is community, right? This is my family. These are people that I've known my entire life. NACs are almost like, summer camp in a way. You go, you see your old friends once a month. Just the community is really what keeps me coming back, despite having accomplished next to nothing in competitive, or coaching career. It's community for me.
[0:02:22] BW: Then, when did you get involved in coaching? When did you get that coaching bug and realize that just as much as you love competing, you also love training other people how to become better fencers?
[0:02:32] DL: Yeah. Right when I graduated college, I graduated at the peak of the Great Recession. I was applying to jobs left and right, when I got out of college, and there was just nothing there. I was living in Tampa with my family when they were there at the time and my coach from high school, Boyko Krastevitch at Tampa Fencing Academy, basically brought me on to help coach there. I learned a ton from him, and really, just happened because there was nothing out there. I graduated with a poli-sci American studies degree and I just got rejected left and right from every job. I started coaching. I found I really loved working with kids and mentoring them and growing them as athletes.
I just got into coaching just by necessity. It was something that was there, something to keep me busy. I don't do it full time now. I do it maybe two days a week, but it's just something that keeps me involved in the sport and that's really how I got involved with it.
[0:03:21] BW: Then, what about the fencing coach? You started a blog and a website and a very popular social media presence, and still one of the best follows in fencing to this day. Just watching all the things that you get up to in fencing and your sense of humor when it comes to the sport, because we can take ourselves too seriously in this sport, just like any sometimes. How did that get started?
[0:03:41] DL: Yeah. One of the things that I've realized over my years in fencing and I'm sure that you saw this, too, as you joined USA Fencing initially is that we can be a really, really complicated sport, in terms of what tournaments to go to, what the role of the coach is, the parent, and things like that. I wanted to create a resource that just dumped all my knowledge from all my years in the sport on a blog. I just wanted to make a resource out there that everybody could access as referees, coaches, athletes, etc. That's how I started it. My whole thing when I started was that all of my content is always going to be free, because I really just put it out there, not for the sake of money, but because I want the information to fencing to be more accessible and out there for anybody who needs it.
Even my data analytics model, put that out there for the public, right? Open source. Want to make sure that any knowledge that I've gleaned over the years from the sport in this very complicated world is out there for anybody, that they can connect the dots and really have good information available.
[0:04:45] BW: Yeah, I love that. It's worked. Eventually, you were able to use some of that notoriety and trust that you'd built within the fencing community to run for the board, right?
[0:04:56] DL: Yeah.
[0:04:57] BW: Not only did you have the name recognition, but also, you had the platform that people got behind. That was evidenced by the fact that you were elected to the board. But some people might say, that's a volunteer job that seems very thankless at times. Why did you want to get involved in the board in the first place?
[0:05:13] DL: That's a great question for me. I wanted to get involved in the board, because I really liked Phil's ideas and what he was doing with the organization when he came on. I still do, of course. It was really just an opportunity to give back to this community that has given so much to me. I ran for the board, because I wanted to help Phil. I wanted to take the momentum that he started when he came on in the post-Tokyo area, when quite frankly, we had nowhere to go but up. I had this opportunity to join, serve the community. Yeah, as you mentioned, it's volunteer. I probably think, I don't know, 20 hours into it every week or so, and it's worth every second that I do, because I want to leave behind a really great legacy on the sport and be able to help my family here, my family being this community.
[0:06:02] BW: Is there something from your coaching that you've been able to bring to the board, like a lesson that you used while coaching that helps you with these other individuals on the board who share your passion for the sport?
[0:06:14] DL: Yeah. I think you know the patience of coaching is something that I've been able to take and bring to the board. You have to understand that you don't build a student in a day, right? You're giving them little bits and pieces over time. We're working with a really diverse group of stakeholders. I say that in every sense of the word, diverse, right? Diversity of thought, opinion, etc. I think, just the patience that I bring to a fencing lesson, I've tried to bring to the board as well, and understanding that the culture that we're trying to build on the board and across the entire governance wing of the organization isn't going to change in a day. It's something that we're gradually building over time. I'm super happy with the progress I've made so far and the time I've been on the board.
[0:06:58] BW: Then, last question before we dive into the governance versus operations discussion that I really want to spend some time on is, what did it feel like to get elected as chair? Because for those who don't know, it was your own peers on the board who voted you into that position, which means that they trusted you and also, you raised your hand to say you want to do it. What did that feel like in that moment?
[0:07:20] DL: I mean, it happened pretty much a year ago this week, and it's still probably the greatest honor of my lifetime that I've had as a member of this sport. I've never taken for granted the fact that I got elected by this community. That's a huge honor in and of itself. After spending a year on the board, having the confidence of my colleagues on the board to trust me with the keys to this car as the organization, it's a huge honor. Especially, more so when I think about the people that are on the board and how much I admire them. Just having their trust, their confidence to run point on the governance side of this organization is something I never take for granted. I'm still honored and giddy about it to this day, quite frankly.
[0:08:00] BW: Congratulations on that. I think you've been doing an amazing job. One thing that you've continued to remind people is that you're not Phil and Phil's not you, right? You both are leaders of this organization, but you are the chair –
[0:08:14] DL: He is a more diplomatic, jovial British man. I'm more direct straight-shooting American type.
[0:08:19] BW: Yeah. If there was any confusion. But what is the difference between governance and operations? I mean, that's the headline of this podcast that we want to get into. How do you draw a line between your role as chair and Phil Andrews’ role as CEO?
[0:08:32] DL: Yeah. When I think about governance and operations, Phil is the driver of the car. I'm the GPS unit. The board is the GPS unit as a whole.
[0:08:41] BW: I like that.
[0:08:42] DL: Where Phil is doing the day-to-day work of the organization, running great events, right? When you think about what we are as USA Fencing, we are an event management and execution organization, first and foremost. What do we do? We deliver this amazing tournament service to our members, first and foremost, right? Our events are amazing. That's our primary function, in my opinion. That's what Phil is doing day to day.
What people like me on the board are doing, we're creating the strategic plan. We're basically saying, “Phil, based on the needs of our members and the organization, this is where we would like you to go in the next four years.” We're also doing things like financial management, right? We're not creating the budget, but we're making sure that we're staying on point. We're helping Phil to evaluate risks and issues as they arise and really help get him through it. Our job, first and foremost, as a board is really to support the national office, not by getting in the weeds of operations and things like that. Believe me, it is tempting sometimes. You ask any board members, especially our elected out, largest directors, right? Because we got on the board because of how much we love fencing. It can be really, really hard to sometimes just be like, “All right, I'm going to hold my opinion on this operational matter and just let Phil take the wheel.” Like I said, at the end of the day, we are that GPS unit.
[0:10:03] BW: Yeah. I love that. I think that's a really good thing to keep in the back of your mind. Can we get into some concrete examples of like, what's something that is definitely governance and what's something that's definitely operations? You talked about events, for example. Let's look at summer nationals. If we just take summer nationals as one example of a huge momentous element of USA fencing, what's something for summer nationals that would be governance and that the board does get involved in and what's something that's operations that's Phil and the rest of us on staff?
[0:10:37] DL: Yeah. Okay. When we put something like, brand exposure and non-member revenue key performance indicators in the strategic plan, that's basically like, okay, Phil, expand our merchandising and things like that, right? We're basically giving that direction. I don't know if you guys, anybody who was in national saw, I thought what the national office set up with the merchandising was amazing. It felt like a retail store. It wasn't just T-shirts that were crumpled and folded up on a table. It was a real user experience. You walked into that merchandising area. That's very much operations, right?
Anything like, the, in the weeds, what's happening with nationals, that's going to be operations. I love chicken tendies, obviously, right? Would I be making motions saying that I want Chick-fil-A chicken tendies on the menu at nationals? No. That would be operational. We're basically, again, we're providing the compass for the organization. If we want to increase the brand value and recognition, we would say that and then leave it to Phil to create the operational plan to say, “Here's how we're going to make that happen. Here are the bits and pieces.”
Now, I do think that our board does play a critical role with serving as a liaison between the community and Phil as well, right? We obviously have relationships that last decades. We want to be accessible and be able to take concerns that we're hearing within the community relate us to Phil as well, but doing so in a strategic manner, so we don't get too far in the weeds.
[0:12:08] BW: You mentioned the strategic plan several times and obviously, that's the guiding north star of the organization. Anybody can go online and search for a USA Fencing strategic plan and read it for themselves. It's actually not that dense to read. It's nicely designed. Shout out to Charlie, our designer. It's got a lot of great points in it that I think will resonate with people. If you were to give an elevator pitch for the strategic plan, or an escalator pitch, let's say we're going up to the NAC floor and someone says, what is it, the strategic plan? Sorry, Damien. I actually haven't read it yet. How do you describe its value in this organization and its role?
[0:12:44] DL: That's a great question. I think our current strategic plan is about growth in every sense of the word growth, right? We are looking to grow our membership. We are looking to grow the number of clubs that we have, and that starts with our coaches who are the fuel and the engine of the sport. We're looking to grow our brand. We're looking to make USA fencing a recognized NGB. I'm so tired of hearing about, “Oh, we're fencing. We're not spectator-friendly. We can't be spectator friendly.”
Well, look what Phil's doing, right? We've got the iHeart Radio thing now. We've got the NBC show that's coming up as well. He's got some other things that are cooking up right now, and I'm going to go like this and remain silent about it. Our sponsorships are growing too, right? I've always believed that fencing is a Ferrari, and that we've often looked at ourselves like a used Kia. When I talk about growth as well, I'm talking about the growth of the sport and the brand as well.
We also have a lot of referee development goals in there too, right? As a demand for our sport growth, as our NACs grow, referee development is such a critical part of that as well. How do we make sure that we're staying up to date on international conventions as they happen? How do we make sure that our referees are growing and that we have the same standards from the international level, all the way down to the local level? Our Referees’ Commission, led under Tasha Martin, doing a fantastic job of growing that aspect as well. For me, elevator pitch, which is a lot more than what I just gave you. It's about growth, growth, growth, right? Growth of the membership, growth of our clubs, and growth of the brand.
[0:14:23] BW: I have to give you a lot of credit, because it's also about growth of para fencing and that's outlined in there so explicitly.
[0:14:28] DL: Absofreakinglutely. I should have mentioned that.
[0:14:30] BW: No, I want to give you props on that, because you've been such an advocate for that side of our sport. If we do want to grow ahead of LA 28, the Paralympics there, we need to start right now, and make sure that we have a great showing there, not just a full team, but also a team that's competing for medals in LA at the convention center there with our para fencers. What's it going to take to get that done from a strategic standpoint?
[0:14:55] DL: Yeah. Also, the real shout out for para goes to our two athlete reps on the board, and Lauryn DeLuca, Paralympian and Scott Rogers, Paralympian. Scott is obviously like our Michael Jordan in para right here.
[0:15:07] BW: Yeah. He's our last medalist, right? For those who don't know, he's the last American medalist in para fencing.
[0:15:13] DL: 2004. Yeah. He also, at the tender age of 50 something, he just took a silver medal in a para world cup this year, and had just one of the most amazing comebacks I've ever seen.
[0:15:24] BW: We love that. Yeah.
[0:15:25] DL: Our para growth, it's about increasing our athlete pipeline, number one, and also, the number of coaches that can do this as well, right? You start there. You look at what the UK has done in para. They have just a gaggle of athletes across category A, B and C, and they're excelling and they're doing great. You think about any pipeline, right? You just got to start with a large funnel. What Beth Mahr in the national office is doing amazingly, what Lauryn and Scott are doing at the board level is creating goals around increasing the number of athletes that we have competing in these events, and coaches as well. The more coaches and athletes we have, the bigger our pipeline is going to be, and the more that positions us for long-term success in para.
[0:16:10] BW: Yeah, that's well said. Back to the governance versus operations, which there's a lot of alignment between you and Phil. You both are such great advocates for para fencing and ensuring that there's equal representation. But in practice, how do you and Phil coordinate without crossing lanes and making sure that each of you stays in the side of governance, versus operations that you're frankly, supposed to be on by the letter of the way it works?
[0:16:36] DL: Yeah. That starts with good communication, right? Phil and I are, I mean, frequently in contact, phone, email, text, right? We're on the same page. Now, does that mean that we're yes, meant for each other? No, absolutely not. There are sometimes when I'm sure I bring up feedback, where Phil's probably wanting to suplex me through a table, right? I think that having a healthy disagreement between sharer and CEO leads to productive outcomes, and that's part of our working relationship.
Why it's so good is that we can always agree to disagree. He's receptive to feedback and makes himself accessible when I, or any member of the board wants to share any thoughts, or opinions that we individually have, or when we relay those thoughts from the community as well. I just think it starts with the working relationship, and given from what I understand some of the Chair-CEO relationships have perhaps been rocky in the past, that's certainly not the case with me and Phil. We have an outstanding working relationship, and there's a ton of mutual respect and I hope he sticks around for however long he wants, because it's been absolutely amazing what he's been able to do for the NGB so far.
[0:17:47] BW: Yeah. One way that communication works in practice that members might not see is you and your fellow board members get a monthly update, right? Saying, which is reports from all the different teams. I put something in there from comms, Brad does something from membership, Glenn from events, and so on. If you read that, it's pretty remarkable all that USA fencing has accomplished. Then Phil does share some of that with the members through his monthly five minutes with Phil, which I would encourage people to read as well. The communication piece and the transparency side is something that I think is just central to both Phil and frankly, you.
[0:18:23] DL: And you, Bryan. Kudos to you. You have done more for communications in USA fencing than anybody I've ever seen in this organization. Just the dynamism that is on our social media, we have podcasts now. The graphic quality that you and Nicole put out there, the written communications. Give yourself kudos for that, too, because that starts with you and Nicole and what you guys are doing.
[0:18:47] BW: That means a lot. I appreciate it. Because you are a visible part of the community, I imagine you get a lot of operational questions in your inbox, like, why was the NAC here? Or why is the selection procedure this way? How do you triage those questions, because I know you like to be responsive, but also, you also have this clear understanding of where that line exists.
[0:19:14] DL: Even with operational stuff, right? I would say, 90% of the phone calls, text, emails, I get are probably operational in nature. I think even as a leader in this community, it's really, really important that I always remember that you have two years and one now for a reason, and really just provide an opportunity as a liaison to the community to listen to concerns, bring them up. I was spending hours at this Coaches Academy this weekend just sitting down with coaches, listening to their concerns, what can we be doing better for you?
When I get a lot of that feedback, I will relate to Phil and Phil will take it like a champ and stride. I also always encourage them to submit operational feedback. There's one thing about that form that we have is that every time I submit an operational feedback, I get a response usually within 48 hours or so. It's important to listen and basically, empathize with people's opinions as they bring up those operational matters. But I'm not then going to create a motion that says, you must award this regional event to so and so, right? It's really just making sure that people understand how things are and how things work, but not intervening and getting in the weeds of operation to make corrections, and so on and so forth.
[0:20:30] BW: that's a clear difference, because I don't want it to come across like you and the other board members aren't able to share your opinions on operational things.
[0:20:37] DL: Of course. Yeah.
[0:20:39] BW: It's just that the ultimate decision for an operational matter, though guided by the strategic plan that you and the board set is up to the staff members, right? Is that distinction clear enough, do you feel, with everybody that – opinions are welcome from everybody, including the board members about operational matters.
[0:20:57] DL: For sure. What I always tell the rest of the board is that we want to stay out of operational matters, unless it's something that could present a legal, financial, or reputational risk to the NGB.
[0:21:10] BW: Sure. Sure.
[0:21:11] DL: Right. Those cases are few and far between. I can't actually think of really, any, since I've been on the board. But other than that, we want to focus on policy, finances, strategic plan and oversight of the strategic plan as well, because everybody on the board, we all have full-time jobs. We all have things to do day-to-day. We placed our trust in the national office and Phil to get it done. When I look at the monthly updates that you mentioned, things are in the green. There's not a ton of risk. We're doing great financially. That's a great thing about the state of the board, right? Is really, we can just let Phil drive the car and we can be there to provide oversight and guidance when needed, and that's really how a well-functioning organization should be.
[0:22:00] BW: Yeah. I think that's well said. When you look back on your time as chair, whenever it does end, what outcomes would you like to put on your wall, so to speak, to say that, “I was really proud that we as a board did this, and some of the things we accomplished”? What do you hope your legacy is?
[0:22:19] DL: It's been a year as chair, right? A year is not a long time to really accomplish a lot. It's not to say that we haven't done a lot this year. We've done quite a lot.
[0:22:28] BW: Yeah, yeah. Totally.
[0:22:29] DL: When I look at our 2024 to 2028 strategic plan and the goals that we have in there, if we can accomplish what's in there in terms of growth of the membership, growth of our clubs, growth of the organization, better gender equity across the board, coaching and athletes and referees, I will be able to look back on that plan and the accomplishments of that plan and say that we as a board, because never about an individual as chair, it's a team sport. Governance is very much a team sport, I'll be able to look back at that with pride.
Right now, there's still a lot of work to do. One year into this, I don't have a lot that I can pat my back on and say, “All right, that's it. The show’s up. We're done.” We have a lot, a lot more to do and we're going to get there. I will be super proud when we accomplish the goals of this plan.
[0:23:21] BW: Yeah, I think that's something that you and Phil both have in common, which is that you both celebrate the success that we've had, but see that there's so much more potential for what the sport can become and have a great vision for how to get there. I think that's terrific.
[0:23:34] DL: Exactly.
[0:23:36] BW: Okay, for our next segment of the conversation, I want to talk about the governance task force. If we could talk a little bit about those proposals and maybe in plain language, what are the concerns that these proposals are from the governance task force are trying to solve?
[0:23:52] DL: What we're trying to solve for is that anytime an organization is in growth mode, you have to scale the governance model that you have to match the growth of the organization, right? There was a time, I think, when we could have something, like a Congress, right? I don't know if a lot of people realize this, but used to be, our board was something like a 100-plus members and you had representatives from every section and it was almost a giant parliamentary body. When it comes to governance, there's a certain point where too many cooks in the kitchen is going to spoil the broth. When we think about all of our goals in the strategic plan related to merchandising, revenue growth, we're not always going to get that in-house from our own community. There's times where we will. But we also need to look to independent voices.
We've gotten a ton of value from our independent directors, who are able to bring that executive presence from outside. We have Marie Donoghue, who was a General Counsel of DraftKings. We've got Andrea Pagnanelli, who was the CEO of the Professional Cycling League. When you think about the industry experience that they were able to bring to the board with volunteer time, bring that to us, these are kind of the voices that are going to really help us advance our strategic plan as well. Everything that is in the GTF is about scaling our governance model, so we can support the goals and the growth of the organization that we have right now.
I do understand when there is any big change like this, the concerns of the community are totally valid. I empathize with it. I understand. I admit myself when the last GTF happened back in 2020, I think it was one of the loudest voices in opposition to some of the changes that were made. I look back on some of those now and I'm like, I think that it actually scaled the organization for the better. It was able to help us grow to the needs of the organization. That's a pitch and a nutshell, Bryan, is really, it's about growing the board with the organization and the direction that we're going in.
[0:26:05] BW: What are some of the other themes that stick out there, like making sure that there's representation is something you touched on earlier, representation from gender representation to different members of our community. Also, I know there's some proposals around eligibility to vote in elections and things like that. What are some of the other themes, or trends that might affect our listeners?
[0:26:29] DL: Yeah. One of the themes that I want to talk about is the flexibility of the board, right? One of the way that you framed it, Bryan, which is far better than I ever could have is in a communication, you refer to it as a 444 model, right? Four elected out large, four appointed, two of which must be meeting the independent criteria from the US OPC, and then four athlete reps as well. The four athlete reps for those who are listening, the Ted Stevens Amateur Sports Act stipulates that at least one-third of your board must comprise of athlete representatives. You have this 444 model, and it gives us the elected voices of the community. It gives us the elected voices of the athletes. The middle bucket is really what I want to talk about, right?
When Ivan Lee resigned, for instance, Molly Hill came into that role and took over for the remainder of his term. When I think about Molly and what she's been able to bring, it's quite remarkable. She has done the committee on the committee work, come up with things like a new red light hearing process. She has been amazing on the ethics committee as well. She's the success story for why this flexible 444 model is going to work. When you have that flexibility with that bucket of four that you can either do independent directors, or appoint people from within our own community that have the industry experience, that has paid their dues on committees and done amazing volunteer work, it gives us a much more flexible board to scale to the needs of the organization at a given point in time.
[0:28:10] BW: Also creates, I mean, just in my observations as a true fly on the wall in those rooms, I think the independent voice also creates this nice balance, because you might have someone who is very popular in the community and has a big role in fencing and a lot of success, and some great opinions and insights into this board, but no board experience, and doesn't understand exactly, no knock on them, but maybe isn't as experienced in the process of a board. You still want them in the room, but you also want someone who understands the power that boards can have to really change a sport for the better. That balance to me is what's so important, and in my opinion, what that 444 is designed to do.
[0:28:55] DL: Yeah. Bryan, your spot on about what you just said about independence. One other thing that I would add, too, is that fencing to our detriment, I think one of our characteristics is that we're one of those sports that's like, we've always done it this way. Why change, right? We are a little bit of a change risk-averse organization. I think about Andrea Pagnanelli and what she's brought to the board, right? One of the things that I love about her is that as somebody who has run a professional sports league, she's often challenging us in board meetings to say, “You guys are doing this, but have you thought about this, right?”
When you have those independent voices on the community, it helps us to get outside of that cycle of like, let's just keep doing the things the same way, because they've always worked, and challenge us to really stretch how we think about fencing as a whole. That's what independent directors bring. We've had a ton of success with Andrea, Jade, Burro, she's coming in from the NFL. Jade's been an incredible voice. Then Marie Donoghue as well from DraftKings.
[0:29:54] BW: Yeah. It’s been a lot. Even the times when people in the community might be a little bit hesitant to accept change, I mean, I think if we can convince them that the direction we're going is a solid one by showing them, not telling them, then I think everybody's going to come on board. You said it right about summer nationals. Look at what Phil and Glenn and the events team have done to transform that into this festival fencing, the largest fencing tournament in the world every single year. It's like, the proof is there, if you're willing to tweak things and make changes that are smart, then you're going to get a result that everybody is a fan of.
[0:30:31] DL: Yeah, absolutely. I love that festival of fencing, right? I think that's a great station of –
[0:30:35] BW: I stole that from Phil, I will say.
[0:30:38] DL: Of course. Yeah. I like to steal things from Phil as well. I don't know if you heard, but I invented the phrase, ‘progress, not perfection’.
[0:30:44] BW: That was you. Okay.
[0:30:45] DL: I won't be taking any further questions. Yes.
[0:30:49] BW: Okay. As we wrap up here, I want to get into our quick hits section, which is something that we've done with athletes. I think, why not with our board chair as well? Are we ready? We're going to do five quick questions. First thing that comes to mind with each of these. Big breath. Here we go. Okay, so the first one is, let's come up with a three-word headline for governance. If there was a neon sign over the board meeting room that reminded people of what good governance looks like, what would that three-word sign be? We got to make the sign today.
[0:31:19] DL: Okay. Three words. Guidance, oversight, policy.
[0:31:24] BW: Guidance, oversight, policy. I love it. Okay. We've got the sign made. Now, let's say, you have a magic wand that as board chair, you could give every club one new resource, tool, thing, whatever that would help grow the sport. It can be a physical thing, or it can be a concept, or it can be anything that comes to mind, what would that magic wand bring about?
[0:31:48] DL: That's a good question. Can I say a brick-and-mortar location?
[0:31:52] BW: Yeah, sure.
[0:31:53] DL: Right. I grew up in central Florida division, and it's grown mightily, since I was there. Every club that I was a member of there, with the exception of one. I said, clubs, plural, right? Because if you wanted to really get a full amount of practice, you had to be going to five different clubs to get the necessary training. They were all in rec centers and things like that. We often dry fencing. I think those clubs are a hugely important part of a organization to be clear, but I just think the most meaningful training experience and growth and obviously, revenue potential for club owners that exist, I think having those brick-and-mortar locations is critical. I would love to be able to go to one club and have one permanent location, but not all clubs divisions have that luxury. I'd say, that would be the magic wand that I would wave there.
[0:32:42] BW: That's great. Yeah. There's nothing like a true fencing club, where you feel like this is your home. I really like that answer.
[0:32:49] DL: Yeah. That's one of the things that, just my jaw drops every time, right? I walk into Greg Kaidanov’s club at Nova Fencing Club, shameless plug here, 24 strips right there. I walk in and I'm like, “Man, I wish I had a club like this when I was growing up.” It's really cool to see that growth that Greg and Donna have had in that club, too.
[0:33:06] BW: I love that. Okay, number three, if governance were a fencing weapon, which one would it be? Foil, épée, saber?
[0:33:12] DL: Oh, épée, naturally, right? Yeah, we're strategy, man. We got to think about the strategy, how we're going to approach things. We can't just charge off the line and go, right? I would say, it's absolutely épée. I'm sure some of my right away colleagues, like Jackie might have an opinion otherwise. But I would say, epic.
[0:33:32] BW: Yeah. I would have put money on that answer for sure, but it's interesting hearing that. All right. I asked this question about fencers a lot. What do they do before a long day of fencing? Some of our board meetings can be a little long. Do you have a ritual before you log on to a Zoom board meeting, or before you step into the room? Or is it making a giant cup of coffee? Is it preparing your notes? What's your pre-meeting ritual?
[0:33:56] DL: Yeah. I try to approach a meeting like I would a competition, right? I generally will listen to some music before and just get focused. I like to come in prepared. I like to make sure that I've read the agenda thoroughly. I like to make sure that I've read all the committee reports as well. I'd like to just make sure that I'm in the right mindset. I also am a very loud mouth, obnoxious person. But as chair, David Arias once used the analogy that, the chair is like an air traffic controller. I also like to just remind myself that you're directing traffic and trying to bring us towards an outcome, and try to get myself to hold my tongue as much as I can and really just let the deliberation occur. Things like that.
I would say, before a meeting, I like to get in that competitive mindset, but also, just remind myself to be more of a guide than somebody that's speaking up. That's really up to my colleagues to be able to do that.
[0:34:56] BW: I like that. Okay. This is actually question 4A then. What type of music are we talking? Calm and soothing, or is this heavy metal, like let's go?
[0:35:04] DL: Man, we're talking death metal, like Cannibal Corpse. I mean, yeah, we're going all in on that stuff. If it’s stuff that’s not screaming in my ear, then I ain't got no time for that.
[0:35:14] BW: Okay. If people see you walking around the NAC before a meeting, they'll know what kind of music is going on in the headphones.
[0:35:20] DL: Yeah. If you seen my headphones on, there's somebody that is screaming in a grumbling voice in my ear. Absolutely.
[0:35:27] BW: Okay. Then, I know we did an escalator pitch for the strategic plan, but let's do one more just about fencing. You’re at a NAC, you're getting on an escalator, it's a 60-second escalator, and someone's like, “What is this? I see all these people with these big golf bags. What's going on here this weekend?” This is your chance to, maybe you notice they've got an eight-year-old kid with them who looks like they might enjoy fencing. This is your chance to pitch them on fencing. What's your go-to pitch?
[0:35:56] DL: We are a sport for life and we're a community for life. I say that, because when you think about us, we have a Veteran 80 division. You don't get that in boxing. I don't think you get that in soccer, right? We are a sport where you can really pick up at any time and do for life. It provides you so much just beyond what you do on the strip. It provides you confidence, self-esteem, friends that you're going to have from the time that you're in Y-12, all the way until you're in the grave, right? I think we have that special aspect that no other sports have is that you can do it for the duration of your life and you have friends that you make through it for your entire life as well, and it gives you the life and social skills that you will need to thrive in your personal and professional careers as well.
[0:36:45] BW: That's great. You're the embodiment of that, right? Damien, thank you so much for pulling back the curtain on how USA Fencing runs and explaining the lanes between governance and operations. If you're listening and today brought up some questions, or ideas that you have, then you can obviously send them in to any of us, really, Damien, or there's a suggestion box on the USA Fencing page and we really do read those. There's also a board feedback form as well that goes to Damien and his colleagues on the board.
We already got the plug for Nova Fencing, but if you're in the DC area, that's a great club, right Damien? You can see the culture that he and his colleagues there have built at that great club. Then, thank you for listening to First to 15. Be sure, if you enjoyed this conversation, leave us a rating or review. Damien, I will see you soon at either a board meeting, or a national tournament.
[0:37:35] DL: Thank you for having me, Bryan. Appreciate you bringing me on.
[0:37:37] BW: All right. We'll talk soon.
[0:37:38] DL: All right.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:37:40] BW: Thanks for listening to First to 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. If you like this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating, or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
[END]