Nurse and simulation specialist Amy Wilson shares a practical, stigma-free playbook for helping youth—and especially neurodivergent—fencers manage energy, focus, and emotions on competition day. Instead of “calm down,” Amy teaches athletes to regulate and then “pull the pin on purpose”—choosing the right moment to go explosive. We cover observation strategies for parents/coaches, low-tech visual tools, co-regulation and communication, and in-the-moment resets that keep kids engaged with the sport they love.
Season 2, Episode 14
Guest: Amy Wilson — Nurse & Higher-Ed Simulation Specialist; youth fencing parent; advocate for neurodivergent athletes
What we cover
Why “calm down” isn’t a strategy: replacing emotions (anger → engagement, under-arousal → activation)
Fencing’s unique demands: fast decisions, constant stimuli, and doing it alone on the strip
The concept: regulate first, then choose to go explosive (“pull the pin on purpose”)
Early warning signs of dysregulation: posture shifts, breath changes, jittering, gear fidgeting
Prevention beats cleanup: proactive routines that keep athletes near the “middle” zone
Why fencing can be great for neurodivergent athletes (stimulus, boundaries, cross-body movement)
Parent–coach partnership: advocacy without power struggles; translating coach feedback
Tools that work: visual charts, nonverbal cues, brief written notes, peer feedback, snacks/hydration
Emergency resets (when the fuse pops): safe sensory “pattern interrupts” and fast re-engagement
Environment tactics: control what you can control without over-calming a kid who needs to compete
Practical toolkit
Observe first: posture, breath, timing, self-touching (e.g., body cord)
Visual feedback card (12 simple icons): on-target, watched lights, stayed centered, didn’t fall, breath, etc. Use silent hash marks during bouts and review between.
Between bouts script: “Does your body need anything?” (water, snack, bathroom, hug) → “Do you want feedback?”
Proactive role-play at home: rehearse day-of scenarios and the visual card so it’s familiar
Break-glass reset options: cold/ice in hand, pleasant sensory (safe “treat”), quick drawing/notes—replace the feeling, don’t debate it
Parent self-care & coverage: tag-team when possible so your presence stays steady and useful
Timestamps
0:00 — Why “regulate, then explode” beats “calm down”
1:18 — Bringing nursing/simulation methods to the strip
2:52 — What makes fencing uniquely tough for kids’ regulation
3:12 — Emotional regulation vs. “be calm”
4:30 — Early signs of drifting out of the optimal zone
5:53 — “Pull the pin on purpose” explained
7:05 — Why intervene; what’s at risk if we don’t
11:05 — Why fencing can be great for neurodivergent athletes
14:46 — How to start: observe, map home strategies → strip strategies
18:31 — Partnering with coaches; translating instruction
23:51 — Visual tools (the 12-icon card) and peer evaluations
29:50 — When the fuse pops: safe sensory interrupts and quick resets
32:08 — Controlling what you can control without over-calming
38:14 — Quick hits for parents: what to pack, what to say (and avoid), how to check in
Quotable
“Don’t calm it away—regulate it and then pull the pin on purpose.” — Amy Wilson
“The loudest thing at a tournament isn’t the beeping—it’s a kid’s negative thought loop.” — Amy Wilson
Call to action
Try one tool at your next practice or tournament: a simple 6–12 icon feedback card, the two-question check-in (“Does your body need anything?” / “Do you want feedback?”), or a pre-planned sensory reset. Share what worked with your coach.
Resources from Amy
We also benefitted greatly from the Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center's ADHD Parenting Seminars. CCHMC's Center for ADHD is "one of the largest in the country devoted entirely to improving the care of children and adolescents with ADHD."
Center for ADHD | Cincinnati Children's
Credits
Host: Bryan Wendell • Guest: Amy Wilson
SEASON 2 EPISODE 14
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:01] BW: Imagine it's 8.07 at a youth tournament, and the venue's loud, the lights are really bright, and your fencers first pool bout is about to begin. You can see their leg is bouncing, their breath is shallow, that pressure is rising. Most of us would say, “Calm down.” But today's guest says there might be a better plan, learn to regulate, and then choose the right moment to go explosive. It's, as she says, time to pull the pin on purpose. I'm Bryan Windell, and this is First to 15.
Our guest is Amy Wilson, who is a nurse and higher education simulation specialist, who has spent a decade teaching with a growth mindset and adapting strategies for diverse learners. She's turned that toolkit toward the fencing strip, helping families and fencing coaches support youth fencers, especially those neurodivergent athletes among us, with practical stigma-free ways to manage energy, focus, and emotions on competition day. We'll start with Amy's journey, dig into why this regulation matters, and then talk about some game day tips, what to do before the fuse burns down, and after. Hey, Amy. Thanks for joining us on the podcast.
[0:01:06] AW: Yeah, thanks for having me.
[0:01:08] BW: You've worked in nursing education and labs, and simulation for years. When did you say, “Okay, what I'm doing could actually help out in fencing”?
[0:01:18] AW: When my son started fencing, and I saw exactly how he needed help integrating into that environment and the culture. He was super young. To even start communicating with groups of his own age, all the way up to about to graduate high school, and then to adults, he needed help with significantly integrating into that smoothly and safely, and comfortably.
[0:01:41] BW: Is there something unique about fencing that differentiates it from other sports in this space? What makes our sport special enough to maybe require its own tweaked thinking to what you might apply to team sports, or other individual sports?
[0:01:59] AW: Absolutely. This one is so much different than what I've ever seen in other individual sports. The fact that you are moving so quickly – a lot of individual sports are slow, golf and tennis. While it moves quickly at times, it can be slow at other times, but fencing is never slow. For groups of kids who think super-fast already, they need help slowing down significantly, and they have to do it alone. There's no one else available besides themselves and the person across from them to gauge what to do. I think that fencing is the perfect place to require a little extra help from anyone that's going to be with you, but also internal resourcing for those kids and adults, anyone who's about to learn this sport, because of how fast it is and how quick the three minutes goes by.
[0:02:52] BW: Yeah, and I've seen parents and coaches say, “Okay, just stay calm.” I hear that a lot out that, when I'm at tournaments walking around. You use the phrase emotional regulation. Is there a difference between emotional regulation and saying, just stay calm, like that one size fits all strategy, I guess?
[0:03:12] AW: Right. Emotional regulation is something that we all possess, the abilities to pull ourselves from one feeling to another. Calming down isn't necessarily what everybody needs to do. It could mean that they are too calm. They need to ramp up properly. It could be that they're in a state of anger and they need to move to engagement, or they need to move to confidence. Moving feelings around and regulating emotionally is different than just coming down to a calm place. I tell my son all the time, you can replace feelings with other feelings. That's what's necessary. If you get mad on the strip, you don't need to calm down; you need to just channel it into a different type of focus. If your parent comes and tells you to calm down, imagine that's what you do at home. “Okay, I'm too excitable. My parents told me to calm down. You need to go sit down.” Well, if that's what their mindset is on the strip, then they're going to stop, right? They're going to freeze and not know what to do, and it's not going to be the right thing for a tournament.
[0:04:17] BW: Are there signs that a fencer is drifting out of the zone that is optimal for them, before it might be obvious to someone who hasn't sat down with you, or doesn't have your background in education?
[0:04:30] AW: Yeah, absolutely. In my son specifically, but in everybody, and start to see those little changes, either in their facial expression, even through a mask, you can start to see a little bit of a difference. But their body posture changes. They're going to stand up. They'll, instead of sitting down, they'll start to move forward faster. It's their timing and their pace. Then, breathing, even if you just watch, how are they breathing or not breathing? Are they holding their breath? Are they hyperventilating in a sense, just increasing that breathing? Then the jitteriness, like you were talking about, they're bouncing their leg. Well, they do that, but on the strip. It could look like pitter patter of the feet. It could be just fidgeting with anything.
My son loves to touch his body cord. He fiddles with it. It's just like, okay, he's starting to be dysregulated. He's touching that for some sense of control, or some sense of, “I need to touch something in order to feel myself in this space.” Because they lose what's around them, and their tunnel vision is there.
[0:05:35] BW: Interesting. You've sent us the idea to come on the podcast. I'm really grateful that you did, because this is a topic that in more than 70 episodes we haven't covered. The title that you chose was time to pull the pen. Can you explain what you meant by that and how that applies to our conversation today?
[0:05:53] AW: Yes. Specifically, my kiddo, but most kiddos in general, but anyone who struggles with knowing how to regulate those emotions, they will get rid of them so fast. They'll just literally open up and show all of their skills, or they'll give all of their energy using all of their fuel before its time. It could come from a place of excitability. It could come from a place of, “I'm so scared that I'm going to lose.” It's fear. It could come from a place of confidence, even, where they've been working on these skills and they've been practicing them and they are moving really well, but they don't realize if I show them every single one of my skills right now in the first minute, then they've seen them all, right? Or, if they throw them all out there thinking, “I got to get to fifth mean faster than this guy,” then they just throw it all out there, and it releases all the power, all the explosion way too fast.
We have to really teach them how to slowly move into that and know exactly when the right time is to be explosive, so that you remain in a place of control. Then you keep some the whole time. You keep some of that power the whole time.
[0:07:05] BW: I mean, that answers my next question, which takes us into the second section of our conversation, about regulation that works and some real-life examples, too. Why is it important to help youth fencers with this emotional regulation? Maybe we could also answer that by looking at the inverse. What are the risks if we don't? If we just say, “Well, they're going to figure this out on their own, and what happens happens.” Some people might even think this is a teaching opportunity for them if they have a bad experience in one bout and end up losing significantly, and maybe that's a lesson for next time. Why do we want to intervene in the right ways?
[0:07:48] AW: Yeah. I feel like my answer to both questions, why do we want to do this, and what's the problem, it's the same. The answer for me is the same. The reason that we do it is to give them the internal resourcing and then the external support to keep their mindset positive and healthy, so that they don't use it too soon. Then, if you don't get in there and utilize the skills soon enough, then you're already too late. By that, I mean, once they let all of it out, or once they use all that energy a little bit too soon, they can't get it back, and it's not because they can't; they don't have endurance or stamina. They have that. It's the mental aspect.
Is it you are too late and you don't prepare, or you're not proactive, then you're already in a place where they're likely to follow their own impulses and their gut and utilize all of it, and then be disappointed. Not even just performance-based. It's not about performing well and winning. It's their mental state and their knowledge that they are capable of getting through this whole match and feeling good about themselves. They slowly made it to that place to thoughtfully explode into that winning mindset, or the growth mindset, because their voices, and I'll just say this for all kids, but their voices are so loud. The voice of neurodivergent kiddos can be so much louder than anything. In a fencing venue, there's a lot of loud things, but not a single thing is louder than their own negative thought cycles.
We have to be ahead of them. We have to get ahead of the negative thought cycle so that they feel prepared, positive, and ready. If we don't do that, so in the second half is if we don't do that, kids will likely feel so bad and will negatively think that it's all their fault, it's their capabilities, it's the way they work, and they will likely leave the sport more readily. This sport is fabulous for neurodivergent kids. It's fabulous for an introvert, neurotypical introvert, and to not use the resources that we have as parents, or that we have as nurses, or just generally, Cincinnati is one of the best children's hospitals. We've got resources everywhere.
To give up on the kiddos because it requires a little more effort, or it requires something that looks a little bit different than other families, or coaching-fencer relationships, it's just a disservice to a lot of those kids. For those two reasons, I feel that they'll be more resourced internally, and we will be prepared, so that we don't have to clean up the emotional meltdown. Then later, if we don't do it, then they'll just quit. It might happen in not just this sport, the next one you try, the next instrument you try. It's a lifelong development that we have to start now.
[0:10:49] BW: Yeah, I think that's really well said. I'd love to hear a little bit more about something you said, which is that fencing is really great for neurodivergent kiddos. What makes you say that? What have you observed, maybe with your own son, if you're comfortable sharing, and with other neurodivergent kiddos that you've worked with?
[0:11:05] AW: Yeah. Stimulation, or connectedness to your environment, to the people, to the equipment, is huge in all of us, just not all of us are thinking about it. Not all of us have a threshold that is as large, or as deep, I guess, as a neurodivergent kid. They love the external stimuli. I won't say all of them. Some are very sensitive to sounds and to all that. I can only really go with my kid and kids who are similar to him. But he loves external stimuli. He loves auditory stimuli. He loves tactile contact stimuli and conversation. This sport, there's constantly a beeping of some kind going on. There's that, the chime, always having the clinking of the metal together, the constant movement that's necessary of your body.
It's hard to learn where the end of your hand is, let alone the end of your blade, then even more so, the end of the strip. To learn that is even harder for a kiddo with a neurodivergent mindset. They don't quite know where their body is in space sometimes. This requires them to be within that tiny little strip. So, the narrowness and the length are specified. Whereas, a lot of other sports, it's a huge field, or it's a large court, and there's so much movement necessary. This gives them the opportunity to have the skills forced in a small face. It requires you to do a lot of crossbody motion. By crossbody, I mean, you use your right side and your left side at the same time, and it's always going on.
That, plus the auditory stimulation for my kiddo and the cheering and all of it, is just feeding that part of them. It's feeding not just their auditory part, and their brain that keeps moving and learning all of that. It's actually their emotional well-being and their belongingness. They just feel activated. On the same note, you have to make sure we're not activated in too far of a direction that they're overwhelmed. That's the part of us being involved as well, and noticing their signs of that emotional dysregulation and having the tools. Doesn't just include parents and our words, because words with all of those noises it can be overwhelming. Nonverbal communication, or paper communication images, picture, diagrams, are huge. Because after about, our son doesn't want to hear our words, and maybe everybody's like that. But more language when he's just had all of that stimulation and activation, it's too much. And so, we use charts and we draw a little pattern of what he looked like emotionally during one bout, or we add all five to six bouts in the pools onto a diagram. We don't even speak, because it says exactly what it needs to say for him.
[0:14:00] BW: You're between bouts, or after pools before Des, rather than sitting down and saying, “Okay, here's the ways you need to improve in fencing, fencing-wise, here's the adjustments you want to make.” You're talking about the emotional side and really focusing in on that, which I love, and I don't – at least, I don't think it's happening a ton in the sport, even with the neurotypical kiddos that might benefit from it as well. How would you recommend someone getting started? Like a parent who maybe recognizes some of these signs, or a coach who, in every club, there's going to be people who are dealing with these same challenges. How do they get started in this? Because not everybody has the same background and understanding about this as you do, obviously.
[0:14:46] AW: I think number one is observing your kid. That's as low as we can go, is a coach, or a parent, or any grown-up that's working with a kid who could be the babysitter who takes them. You observe your kiddo very closely, without judgment either. You can take notes physically, or you can just take them mentally. But you're observing that person, and you can observe them in comparison to other kids, but without truly comparing them. You just need to draw on some differences.
After that, you don't even have to go fencing ever. You don't have to know everything about fencing. You don't need to know anything about fencing. You can take on or draw from home activities. What is it that motivates our kid to put his clothes away after we fold them? Or what is it that motivates our kid to stay seated while eating dinner? You can put any list of things together that you want. You go from there.
Then you start to say, “Okay, this is what we do at home. This is a similar activity. He's supposed to stay in the middle of the center of the strip. How do I help him stay in the center of his chair, instead of hanging off halfway and eating his food while standing with one leg down and one leg up?” You just need to make the connections from at home. You can even ask the teachers in school, what do you utilize that helps our kiddos stay seated in crisscross applesauce on the carpet? You're just going to draw all of that together, because that helps you see what their current internal resourcing is and what external motivators you need to utilize to get them to do anything differently.
The coaches don't have time, all the time, to provide them feedback. You then would want to make sure that you connect with the coach, or if it's the other way around, the coach connecting with the parent, to make sure you're in partnership. Because there are a lot of clubs that are like, you cannot be in here at all. That's a hard one. But if you want to advocate for your child and you can do it in a thoughtful way, where nobody's in a power struggle, and you can tell them this is actually going to probably be better for you and your club, because our son will be motivated and on track. Then, they will start to see that and observe it. I have had that experience, and it's been great.
Not only that, when there is someone there who's helping one kid, it actually helps all of them, because if there is a kid who gets dysregulated, they often can come over to receive something from me, or from the parent that they've noticed has been doing that. It's just a culture of helpfulness. That's where I would say is the starting point. We don't often stare at our kids and study them in this way that says, “I want to know you. I want to know you better.” I think that's huge. Got to start there.
[0:17:42] BW: Yeah. That brings up something that you said, makes me think of like, there's some coaches and even sports theories that say, don't involve parents, and this parent should not be a part of this. You're welcome to sit there and cheer and then make sure your kid is at practice, if we're thinking about a soccer team, or at fencing, at fencing practice on time, and make sure they show up to the competition ready to go.
During the actual competition, some coaches might say, “I'm the one who does the coaching here, and please make sure they get to their strip on time and help them with that.” How do you respond to that? Does it just come back to what you were talking about, like building that relationship with the coach as well to make sure they understand? I'd love to hear your experiences there.
[0:18:31] AW: Yeah, absolutely. It's about the rapport for sure. The more you prove yourself to be helpful and to help the kiddo, or multiple kiddos perform to his liking, or his or her the coach’s liking, the more you earn that place there. In the beginning, you do have to push back and advocate and say, “Until you're able to meet his psychological needs and his physical needs.” Mind you, Jacob started when he was five and a half, so he had all the needs. Snack needs, any kindergartener need. I'm like, “Until you're capable of meeting those needs, I'm not sure that we can separate for a significant period of time.” It does require that earning of respect.
For other parents, yes, you'll have to figure out if the specific club is right for you, but you definitely need to use your advocacy brain at that point, and the words are absolutely necessary. The coaches can see it eventually. I will say that in all coaching experiences, coaches talk in a certain way, and they use a certain tone. A lot of times, either from a processing perspective, my son didn't understand what they were saying. I'm not talking accents or literal language. He's very on top of that. It was the way they would repeat the same thing, or the way they would say it in relation to what he just did. I could read on his face. He doesn't know what you guys are talking about.
I wouldn't say it to the coaches, because I'm not going to change them. But I would reiterate this similar aspect, but in a different way that I knew he understood, because I know how his brain works when he steps on the strip, and what he just even thought about. If he did this move and it didn't work, I know where his thoughts went. They don't know, because they're going straight to physical motion, and he's not there. He's not thinking like that. And so, I'll say exactly what they said, but a little bit different. It has to be at a volume, or a volume, basically louder than his own internal thoughts.
It's very unusual, but it does require both. I agree in a great aspect that we are not going in to be coaches, but sometimes you have to do what I just said, which was reiterate the feedback if you actually want him to implement it. Otherwise, we come in as cheerleaders to keep his mindset positive and keep that internal dialogue more quiet than his ears are powerful for us and coach. That's what we have to tell him is turn your ears on for coach's voice, or turn your ears on for daddy's voice, depending on who is the primary helper. It doesn't even matter what we're saying. It just has to be motivating. It has to make sense, and it has to hit him in the right spot for action. Otherwise, he's going to freeze and probably not even hear what you said, especially if you try to say it the same way repeatedly.
[0:21:45] BW: What's so interesting about that is what you're describing requires you to be there and present at practice, and hearing what the coach is saying, because you understand that your son might need you to interpret that, again, not in a language sense, but in all the other senses, interpret that instruction in a way. That means, when you're at practice, you're not on your phone, or reading a book, or chatting with the other parents. You're there present as well. Is that what I'm hearing? Is that also a strategy is making sure you're also receiving the input from the coach during practice?
[0:22:19] AW: You bet. However, you will see me all of those things, on my phone, on my laptop, talking to other parents, but you will know my ears are on for my son all the time. Yes, I'm present and I'm actively hearing, especially during his lessons, that's the one-on-one feedback period of time. I am on it all the time. I know what sound is him positively. Like saying, “Yeah, I got this.” And know what sounds like, “Oh, I just got hurt.” That's a number of different things. That's the nurse in me. That's the middle child in me.
It's not everyone, but I'm definitely – my antenna are up at all times. I try to be as present and involved as possible, and so does my husband. It does require a group or a family to agree to be on the same page. Because it is a lot for one person to do. Even though you can do it as a single parent too, and I've seen many parents doing that and just, as long as you're deeply invested in your kid and what they're interested in, or passionate about, and how they learn it, then you can be successful.
[0:23:26] BW: Can we talk a little bit more about the physical visual tools? You talked about that chart that you use at the end of pools, for example. Are there other physical cues that you recommend, or have used yourself that help reduce that auditory overload that someone might experience? I'm especially thinking of some of our national tournaments, where there's 70 strips all in use at the same time.
[0:23:51] AW: Yes. I brought a couple. I don't know if they'll show properly on the camera or backwards. They're well-loved, because they've been used by not just us, but by peers, by a little peer friends. It's normalizing it, because every single person could use this, whether they're neurodivergent or sensitive to auditory stimuli. It doesn't matter. It's very wrinkly and used by lots of kids.
We pick any image that is going to be helpful to give him feedback during the bout. We will silently put a hash mark, or a chicken scratch there, and it'll be anything that we know resonates with him. When you create these, you do have to go over them with the kid, or you will not – they won't know what they're looking at, and you'll still have to talk a ton.
[0:24:41] BW: That's something you would do at home, right? Go over them at home when you're not in the moment.
[0:24:47] AW: Yes. That's true. Everything related to the skills that you're trying to utilize in fencing is – and at home, this is parenting specific. If you want your kid to do something differently, you want to do what we call role-playing, is what we say to them. Do you like to role-play this? Because this is what's going to happen. Then we'll pretend he's fencing, and I'll watch, and then we'll sit down and I'll go over it. Then the next time, we don't have to say anything at all.
Online, just Google, or look up anything you're trying to, on target. You're just going to Google that, and then, “Well, my kid that one. Does he understand that?” Then, in on guard position, so sitting low, did you fall a lot? My son fell all the time. He still falls a lot. That is, if your kid falls a lot, then definitely put that on there, because you want the ones where it's positive, as well as the negative ones. “Oh, you didn't fall at all. I don't have any marks there.” You put a smiley face instead.
[0:25:46] BW: Ah, nice. You made this yourself, right? This is something you made, and you're saying you found each image, because you know your son better than anybody, right? You said, this will be one that will be both easy to understand in the heat of the moment, and that he'll like, right? That'll resonate with him.
[0:26:04] AW: Yes. We've been to a lot of different parenting seminars. For kids with negative mindset, or with a mindset of something's different or going wrong at all times, you have to positively reinforce 10 times more than the negative. One of the earliest practices when you are trying to improve behavior is you are giving compliments, left and right. If you have to tell them, “Oh, you spilled your milk. That's unfortunate. Can you please clean that up?” You have to say, “Oh, good job, going to get a paper towel. Good job going to hold that chair out, so that it doesn't get milk on it, too.” For everyone, it's 10 more. It's in a really condensed period of time to get their mind to prevent it from going into a negative loop, which again, is the same mindset of preventing the early pin pull, the early experience.
You're just suppressing it in order for them to regulate themselves and realize, “This is not the moment I have to explode. This is just spilled milk.” Same thing with this. Yeah, just has to be all balanced positives and negatives. I barely looked at the light box. I looked at the ref instead, which is great. We love that one, and we love friends to do it, too. I'm a huge proponent of peer evaluations. In higher ed, we have instructors, but we also have lots and lots of college kids who don't want to perform poorly in front of their friend. You guys are going to evaluate each other. It's been really great, and it's a safe place for them to know that their friend is looking at them, instead of their instructor, who can be pretty intimidating. It’s a great resource for kids, too.
[0:27:43] BW: I love that. For those who aren't watching on YouTube, but are listening, Amy was showing a three by four chart with 12 different boxes. Each one has a visual representation of something that could happen in fencing, or that she's noticed, looking at the light box attacks, disengages, falling down, like she mentioned, on target, things like that. It brings me to another question, which is, obviously, you made that yourself, but where can someone find resources online? Is there a website, or a resource you like to use, or even a message board where parents and coaches can connect with others, you want to share resources, either specifically about fencing, or more general, just about working with neurodivergent athletes?
[0:28:28] AW: I have not utilized any. I would have to do that research. It sounds like an area that we could develop.
[0:28:35] BW: We need that then.
[0:28:36] AW: Yes. Yeah. I don't have anything. But once you start looking online, lots of different things pop up. I will say that you find a lot of pay to get these resources things, and they're just like, “Nah. I'll just throw my own together.” Each kid is so different that it's very important to customize it to what you know about your kid. But I do think that that would be a great resource, because I've done the same. I share everything with anyone who thinks it's need. I'm like, well, do you want one? I can print you one. I'll laminate it for you. And hand them out to people, because I know how time consuming that is and how important the resources are for others, that I'm willing to share any of it. I will never resource guard, right? Where I only get it for me and my kid. Everyone should have all of it, because we all need it.
[0:29:25] BW: Okay. Let's say, you've got the best intentions here, the strategies were working well, and then something happens, and there's a moment where a fencer blows the fuse, let's say, and has some really big emotions. Do you have a strategy that's for emergency use only, break glass, your reset that you recommend using, where you can recover and still finish the day strong?
[0:29:50] AW: That one definitely depends on the moment, the day, the trigger, the what's coming after it, what type of responsibility do they have to step back into. A lot of times, it's even tougher knowing are we at practice? Can we go somewhere private, or are we in the venue where it's not going to be private at all? It's very, very much proactivity is really necessary, but reactivity to the big explosion, like you said, that you weren't expecting, or that you were expecting and weren't probably going to be able to prevent, we always have to pack more than many other people. We're carrying more bags from other people because we have to have sensory resources.
Sometimes you have to shock the system a little bit to get that movement of emotion. Like I said, you want to replace a feeling with a different feeling, and you want to do it in a really healthy way. It can be anything. Please, hold this ice pack in your hand. It's going to be very cold. Sometimes we'd have to go to medical just to, “Could I get a bag of ice, please? It's not for pain. It's for, I need him to feel the cold.” To the point of like, “Oh, that's so cold, I can't hold it anymore.” Because the feeling, whatever it is they were having, will now move out. It will be replaced with some actual survival feeling, versus the fake survival. You're not having trouble surviving. You're just struggling to regulate.
This pushes it into a true internal change of like, I am actually trying to protect myself. The cold is really good. Anything that is – even slime, where it's like, “Oh, that's not pleasant,” will push an unpleasant feeling to a different unpleasant, but it's a safe unpleasant. Often, eat the healthiest foods. Only eat this when you're on the strip, and only that, so that you have the best mindset and performance. Well, we sometimes have to just throw those things in there, because moving away from whatever feeling they're having to just even a joyful chocolate in their mouth for a couple minutes, will distract them. Then you have to teach, that's not how we get rid of our feelings.
In the moment, we have to use those tricks. We can't just do the apple and banana, or whatever. We got to do something else, especially if your kid has sensitivities to different foods; you have to be extra cognizant.
[0:32:08] BW: Sure. Yeah. You can't always find exactly what you need in the convention center, or at the at the fencing gym. What about the environment? Let's talk a little bit more about that. If you have any recommendations for how you avoid or plan for that sensory overload. The lights are super bright. It's very noisy. Is there something in your kit, or in your strategies, that you would recommend, finding a quiet corner, or something like that, to control what you can control?
[0:32:40] AW: I love that you said that as well, because that is a huge theme in our home at this time. Know what you can control and what you cannot. I will think that my son does not like going out of the venue, or leaving to a quiet place. Suddenly, it triggers that not belonging and the negative thought cycles for him, specifically. I can really only speak to that, because he is a stimulation seeker, whereas many other kids are that, like you said, they need to go and be calm and quiet.
Mind you, also during a tournament, if we go to that place where we're going to be quiet and calm, because we really do feel that's necessary, we have to remember that that actually brings him to such a state of regulation that it's hard to get back to fighting mode for the competition.
[0:33:28] BW: Which you need in this sport.
[0:33:30] AW: Yes. It's a super sensitive thing. You have to pull out any stops and tricks that you have that are not going to separate his internal world from the actual tasks and goals at hand. Yeah, that's what I have to go by. The visuals are really, really big, because that is – and I'm not talking about this image card anymore. I’m talking about the one where we show him his actual wave of emotions. We visualize this, that you're up here right now, or down here. I can show you that chart if you want. It's so hard to get back to the middle if you're on either end, top or bottom of explosion, or so disconnected down here, that it takes a really long time. We need to just stay around the middle.
It resonates with him enough on an image to see the marker difference between where he is and needs to be that we don't have to leave to do that, and we don't have to make him feel different. He needs to feel like he belongs, and he's in that environment, that we can handle it with him. We've heard many times, we have to separate sometimes from our kid, not them needing to leave everyone else. Sometimes it's just us. Sometimes we'll just say, “All right, we're going to leave.” You put a little boundary up there, because sometimes it's just the two of you, or the three of you, that are causing. You just need less of each other.
You say, “You know what? You can hang out with your friends and watch them play their video games for five minutes. We're going to run out here.” Then, sometimes just the separation reminds them, “Okay. I really liked it better when they were here. I'm going to keep up a little bit.” There's no shaming in it either. There's no like, I'm leaving, because you're acting like it. We can't do that, because again, that holds in the negative cycles. It's very sensitivities there.
[0:35:22] BW: So much of what you're been describing as strategies that work are obviously developed over just through experience, right, and understanding and observing your own son. I'm curious, are there ways that you record this for yourself? You're like, okay, here's what worked in this moment. Is it all just in the head and the brain, remembering it? Or are you tracking your own observations and understanding in some way as well?
[0:35:51] AW: Lots of debriefing, whether it's verbally, just me and my husband, or whichever other grownup is with me. Not usually the coaches. That's definitely not their responsibility. Whichever grownup is with me. Then, figuring out how to channel that into something quick for Jacob. We love writing notes back and forth to each other. It could be that at the end of the whole tournament, it didn't result how he wanted, and he's got lots of feelings going on. We're done talking about it. We don't want to do any other charting or anything. It's over. He's now internally just processing.
We'll write notes back and forth, whether it's on our commute home, or it's you're getting ready after that, and we're fixing up the hotel room. We'll write in a journal. We have a mommy's turn, Jacob's turn, and we just go back and forth. Drawing pictures back and forth to each other is huge. It could be that sad face. Look at simple. You don't have to be able to draw. Just sad face, and then candy bar, and then happy face, right? Then green light for a point, right? Oh, that went from sad, you had a snack, and then you're happy, and you got a point. Then you're not even talking about it. You and him together, you and your child together know, I have to eat when I don't feel like I'm doing well, because my brain needs that that energy and that literal sugar that it uses to work. Got to have that.
Recording, honestly, is not the best for all of us. My son does not love watching his bouts back anyway. I'll record those. Sometimes it'll be like, “Hey, did you hear mommy say this? Did you hear me say, “Great job, Jacob. Make sure you breathe.” I’ll say, “Did you visibly see here how you just started breathing, and then you went?” Sometimes, yes, but mostly it's note writing back and forth and lots of debriefing from an adult standpoint to bring it down to a kid level.
[0:37:48] BW: I love that. Well, as we wrap up here, I want to give you five quick hit questions. This is how we like to end our episodes now. The first one is, what is something that you would recommend everybody have in their go back? You talked about how you pack a little bit more. What's something that a parent of a neurodivergent fencer, especially, but even everybody, should have in their tournament bag, or their regulation kit?
[0:38:14] AW: Yeah. A note pad and a pen, or note pad and a marker for sure. Yup. Yup. That is the biggest thing, because it can be used for all sorts of things. They draw, you draw, whether it's the charting, or anything, or you write love notes back and forth to each other, or you create spitballs, whatever you need to do to distract from. That and a pen is going to take you really far. Parents, as always, you got to have the snacks that they need and want, the ones that work for them and, and drinks. Yeah.
[0:38:44] BW: Okay. Question two, we'll say, this is a fill in the blank. Before a bout, parents should say, blank. You can fill that in however you want, which, the type of thing, or a specific phrase, maybe.
[0:38:58] AW: I'm so excited to watch you do the thing you love, or I'm so excited to watch you today. Just something that says, “I love watching you.” They don't need to know what you're watching. You love it, and I'm excited to do it.
[0:39:17] BW: Okay. Then question three is, is the opposite. What's something they should avoid saying or doing before a bout?
[0:39:23] AW: Placing any extra pressure on them at all, at all.
[0:39:27] BW: Like, okay, remember, this is to get in the 64, or something like that. Yeah.
[0:39:30] AW: Yup. Yup. Anything that would place pressure on them or change what's in their mind for their performance.
[0:39:37] BW: Okay. Then number four, for checking in between bouts, is there something that you like to use, either a visual cue, or something, maybe, say, you've got 10 minutes. What do you do in that time between rounds?
[0:39:52] AW: Rehydrate, offer snacks, offer any feedback. Do you want to talk about anything?
[0:40:01] BW: You’re asking before you give it, in other words.
[0:40:03] AW: Yeah.
[0:40:03] BW: Got it. Make sure it's ready to be received.
[0:40:06] AW: Yeah. Yeah. Do you need it? Does your body need anything? It allows them a moment to just feel inward, whether it's, “I need a bathroom, I need to drink, I need to eat, I need a piece of gum, or mommy, I need a hug.” Whatever it may be, just does your body need anything? Do you want to talk about anything?
[0:40:24] BW: I love that. Then my last question is, how about you? How do you stay, make sure you stay in the right headspace during this tournament? Because that's a lot of time on your feet and thinking about the well-being of your son. How are you making sure you're well-hydrated and fed and in a good spot?
[0:40:41] AW: Yeah. Not uncommon for nurses to just disregard their needs and moms in general.
[0:40:48] BW: Exactly.
[0:40:50] AW: Definitely, when you're not alone and you're with another grown-up who can watch your back for you, is the best. I definitely wait for the end to take care of myself. That does end up leading to some burnout. As long as you have a great partner, everything is easier to have a two-on-one situation, whether it's grandma and you, or dad and mom. It's just, got to have somebody who can run to get you that water, while you keep your presence.
[0:41:21] BW: That's great. That's well said. Well, thank you so much for turning these big ideas into some really compassionate steps that families and coaches can use, as soon as this weekend. If you're listening and something resonated, try what you heard today the next time you're at a practice or a fencing tournament. I think it's really going to help. As always, if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to leave us a quick rating and review. Thank you so much, Amy Wilson, for joining us, and hope to see you at a future tournament.
[0:41:52] AW: Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's a good time.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:41:55] BW: Thanks for listening to First of 15, the official podcast of USA Fencing. We'll be back with our next conversation in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, you can stay up to date on all the latest fencing news by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. If you like this podcast, please help us grow and reach more people by leaving us a rating or review. Until next time, I'm Bryan Wendell, and I hope to see you real soon out on the strip. Bye.
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